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Maffetone Training Questions
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I am trying to be disciplined in following the Maffetone method but have some fundamental questions that I can find answers to, so am posting here.

My Maffetone calculation: 180 - 54 (years) = 126. I adjusted up to 130 because I have been training for over two years consistently and I read that at age 55 you can also adjust up 5 points.

1) What if the 130 is just over my true aerobic threshold. Have I really screwed everything up? That is, I have thought I was running just under my aerobic threshold when in fact I was slightly going over.


2) I run or cycle for 90 to 120 minutes 6 days a week. Can this screw up the body's adjustment to Maffetone because the duration is longer than 60 minutes, so it stresses the aerobic system more than it should?


3) I am NOT following the Maffetone high protein, high fat and low carb diet. Although it would surely be beneficial, I assume it is not necessary to gain the aerobic benefits, right?
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4) I follow Maffetone for running and cycling, but not swimming (which I am still struggling with so there is no choice there. I do a lot of heavy breathing during swimming). I do 2 workouts a day. Does the non-compliant swimming workout 4 times a week screw up the body's adaption?


5) I understand that there are ways to add some HITT to the work (such as once a week do a HITT workout). Is this true? Any guidelines to follow?

6) I assume that, while my BPM max will never change, my speed will change over time. For example, following Maffetone's 130 BPM rule for me, I am running a 12 minute mile during workouts. I assume that at some future date(hopefully within a month or two), I will be able to run 11 minutes per mile, then 10, etc. while keeping to the 130 BPM. Is this assumption correct?


Many thanks in advance. Any comments or advise it appreciated.

- James
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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There is a ton of info on this in the archives. Search and all your questions will be answered.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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I can't answer any of your questions, but if 220-age is considered a garbage way of determining training heart rates, what does that say about any 'n'-age based heart rate?
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Jamesgs wrote:
My Maffetone calculation: 180 - 54 (years) = 126. I adjusted up to 130 because I have been training for over two years consistently and I read that at age 55 you can also adjust up 5 points.

1) What if the 130 is just over my true aerobic threshold. Have I really screwed everything up?

Sadly, yes. Even going over your target heart rate just once will cause all sorts of negative effects, starting with burst capillaries (as Mike Walden recognized years ago, and Rick Crawford famously capitalized upon when training riders such as Tom Danielson).
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Andrew.

Here are a few follow-up questions.

1) When I run and the HR monitor beeps that I have gone over by a one or two, I slow down. This happens multiple times on a run because 130 BPM is so slow. Is this the same scenario that you are referring to with burst capillaries? Does it really undermine the benefits of the entire run?

2) What if my 130 target HR calculation is incorrect? Let's say it is really should be 128 or 129. How would I know?

Staying under 130 is really difficult. If the true target was 126, this would be incredibly slow and difficult to maintain.

Thanks again.

- James
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Jamesgs wrote:
Thanks Andrew.

Here are a few follow-up questions.

1) When I run and the HR monitor beeps that I have gone over by a one or two, I slow down. This happens multiple times on a run because 130 BPM is so slow. Is this the same scenario that you are referring to with burst capillaries? Does it really undermine the benefits of the entire run?

2) What if my 130 target HR calculation is incorrect? Let's say it is really should be 128 or 129. How would I know?

Staying under 130 is really difficult. If the true target was 126, this would be incredibly slow and difficult to maintain.

Thanks again.

- James

I'm a couple of years younger than you (52 next month). If I would have to keep my runs at a HR < 130 I'd kill myself (by stopping with training, eating Cheetohs all day, and dying morbidly obese).

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard,

That poses a great question!

I chose Maffetone because, as I understand it, as the body ages, its ability increase performance through anaerobic conditioning decreases such that over 50 is not very much. So, I switched to aerobic training (Maffetone).

Yet, running at, say, 126 BPM which is about a 13 minute/mile pace, for 60 to 90 minutes is extremely boring and dull (I was yelled at by a drunk man today for going to slow). It also requires me to modify my form because if I lean forward, I go over the ceiling.

So, how do you improve performance if over 50?

- James
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Jamesgs wrote:
So, how do you improve performance if over 50?

Caveat: I'm neither an exercise physiologist nor a certified coach.

The same way I did before I turned 50. By responsibly increasing volume, doing lots of easy (but not *slow*) running; think 8:00-8:15min/mi (with a 5km PB of 19:30 or ca. 6:15min/mi), running hard on the track once a week, and long with tempos once a week. For biking similar; easy spins at 60-80% FTP, and one or two interval sessions per week, one with longer and one with shorter intervals.

This works for me, but 1/ I have a decent base of ca. 10 years now, and 2/ when I started 10 years ago it was from zero, so the only way was up, and fortunately I've been able to keep that trajectory going.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Jamesgs wrote:
Thanks Andrew.

Here are a few follow-up questions.

1) When I run and the HR monitor beeps that I have gone over by a one or two, I slow down. This happens multiple times on a run because 130 BPM is so slow. Is this the same scenario that you are referring to with burst capillaries? Does it really undermine the benefits of the entire run?

2) What if my 130 target HR calculation is incorrect? Let's say it is really should be 128 or 129. How would I know?

Staying under 130 is really difficult. If the true target was 126, this would be incredibly slow and difficult to maintain.

Thanks again.

- James

Hey James, I don't think AC is being serious with you. Maffetone's age formula was originally based on a general observation and a "guesstimate". I think about his method as emphasising base training which is important and too often neglected and rushed. He has lots of interesting things to say about diet but take it or leave it, not all of what he says is science based. Just remember too his great success with Mark Allen was to get him to slow down early in his training for Kona. MA was a great mostly shorter distance guy trying to crack the Kona puzzle then. Remember he was already a great athlete so there's that too. Pete Jacobs is a great supporter of Phil Maffetone you can look up his recent results easily.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Mark57] [ In reply to ]
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Mark57 wrote:
Pete Jacobs is a great supporter of Phil Maffetone you can look up his recent results easily.


You will have to look at the DNF's or third page of pro's. To be fair, I'm not sure his downfall has anything to do with Maff, he's had some major issues.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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You should use pink. You have a reputation and people might take you seriously.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Jamesgs wrote:

So, how do you improve performance if over 50?

- James

Same as everyone else. Absolute HR, power and pace numbers will be appropriately lower, weaker and slower than it was when you were younger. Nothing else changes. I'd only add that there is a benefit to weight training to slow muscle mass decrease.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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The heart rate estimate is bollocks and could be a long way off.

Last time I gave a shit about HR I was about 37 and my 220-age HRmax would have been estimated at 183. My actual HRmax was about 212.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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I think heart rate can be used in many ways to access the better position and cadence on the bike, better swim technique for you as well as better cadence/technique when running
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Jamesgs] [ In reply to ]
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Hi James,

First of all, kudos for having the discipline to take on the Maffetone approach!

It is not an easy route, but, in my experience, it can be extremely beneficial when an athlete has the patience to adhere to it over a sufficient period of time (most don't). This is true all the way up to many of the professional athletes that I've worked with, who often are lacking in aerobic base after many years of racing (though is obviously more challenging to implement in the season plan given the current structure of qualifying events).

Here is an Endurance Planet podcast that Dr. Maffetone and I did with Tawnee Prazak that may help to answer some of your questions.

https://www.enduranceplanet.com/...testing-plus-maf-qa/

and some more detail here...

https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/MAF.html

Spoiler alert: My recommendation to your specific query on what individual heart rate numbers to use would be to get yourself to a lab for a metabolic test (& Dr. Maffetone agrees with this when good testing is available). The 180-age number is a good general guideline when individual test data isn't available but, really, if you want to get to the nitty gritty of your own individual metabolic thresholds, the best way is to get to the lab & find out your own numbers.

I'm not doing public testing anymore but I put together a few tips in this post on how to go about finding a good metabolic testing facility.

https://www.alancouzens.com/...tburning_test_1.html

Hope this is helpful & all the best for the journey ahead!

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Aug 13, 18 8:11
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [RBR] [ In reply to ]
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RBR wrote:
I think heart rate can be used in many ways to access the better position and cadence on the bike, better swim technique for you as well as better cadence/technique when running

Not disputing or agreeing with the use of HR as a training metric. But these age-based "calculations" are a load of old horse poo.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
You should use pink. You have a reputation and people might take you seriously.

And where would the fun be in that?
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [Mark57] [ In reply to ]
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Mark57 wrote:
Hey James, I don't think AC is being serious with you.

No, I wasn't, which I thought would be obvious. Since it wasn't, though, let me cut to the chase for James's sake:

1. Maffetone's theories are nonsense, and

2. The only way to not train predominantly aerobically is to nothing but 1 min or shorter intervals with many minutes of recovery in between (i.e., the way a track sprinter would train).
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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TriguyBlue wrote:
Mark57 wrote:
Pete Jacobs is a great supporter of Phil Maffetone you can look up his recent results easily.


You will have to look at the DNF's or third page of pro's. To be fair, I'm not sure his downfall has anyth7ing to do with Maff, he's had some major issues.

I've thinking about your comment and I agree. I wasn't being totally fair to either of them.
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Re: Maffetone Training Questions [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
RBR wrote:
I think heart rate can be used in many ways to access the better position and cadence on the bike, better swim technique for you as well as better cadence/technique when running

Not disputing or agreeing with the use of HR as a training metric. But these age-based "calculations" are a load of old horse poo.

My post had nothing to do with calculating anything including heart rate
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