i'm just sayin'.

once you take somebody out of their own wheelhouse, there's almost always a very large gulf between what that somebody is allegedly *capable of* versus what they actually *do*. i used to spectate that at every annual carlsbad 5000, back when all the triathletes from the world over would gather to train in san diego.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

PV accurately remembers his 400m times. More accurately, how agonizing they were; hence why I went back to PV. A lot less agony running 100 ft and a lot more fun falling to the mat :)

I think you're a tad high though; my dollar is on a flat out 70. This way she can tell the world she ran a 4:40 mile. Although I would like to see her shaved and lathered, I'd sure as H#ll be focused!

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When someone pulls laws out of their @$$, all we end up with are laws that smell like sh!t. -Skippy

100 posts. This is hilarious ... So glad I tossed this out there. It made my Friday.

100% agreed. Considering it was her 8th lap; she would have blow away the 09 NCAA championship field. LMAO

Google search 2009 NCAA womens 400M finals and this is what you get.

Heat 1 Semi-Finals
1 Leslie Cole SR Oklahoma 52.19Q
2 Alexandria Spruiel SR North Carolina A&T 52.46Q
3 Joanna Atkins SO Auburn 52.51Q
4 Lajada Baldwin SO Mississippi 52.89Q
5 Endurance Abinuwa SO Texas-El Paso 53.00q
6 Elizabeth Olear JR Southern California 53.86
7 Kandi Bonty SR California 53.88 [53.874]
8 Katrina Taylor SR Baylor 54.19
-- Brandi Cross JR South Carolina FS
Heat 2 Semi-Finals
1 Francena McCorory SO Hampton 51.74Q
2 Jessica Beard SO Texas A&M 51.76Q
3 Keshia Baker JR Oregon 52.33Q
4 Shelise Williams SO Arkansas 52.85Q
5 Sharay Hale FR Columbia 53.08
6 Krystin Lacy SR UCLA 53.83
7 Michelle Fedrick SR Maryland 53.88 [53.880]
8 Alishea Usery FR Florida 54.62
9 Brook Turner SR California 54.89

She probably measured in yards ;)

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"thoughts become things, choose the good ones"

Thats the semi finals, but yeah 52s is seriously fast. If you consider 52 to be 52.99, that would be the 50th fastest woman in the US for 2010. So while I'd bet money that she was mistaken/exagerating, its not so fanciful as to be impossible.

Keep in mind that every once in a while someone does come out of nowhere to post incredible feats.

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=123&a=7189

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Post: Thats the semi finals, but yeah 52s is seriously fast. If you consider 52 to be 52.99, that would be the 50th fastest woman in the US for 2010. So while I'd bet money that she was mistaken/exagerating, its not so fanciful as to be impossible.

Keep in mind that every once in a while someone does come out of nowhere to post incredible feats.

I know everyone says they don't believe it and think she was mistaken, which is true because there is no way she could run that, ever.
I still don't understand the people who think "it's not so fanciful as to be impossible"

Bottom line it is impossible for her.

i think what everyone is forgetting about this is that this is all just a fluff piece to keep ms. vonn's name in the papers, keep her relevant. i mean, talk about slow news day.

Again, I think its a serious long shot that she could run 52, like lotto longshot. But exactly what makes it impossible? She's a great athlete, powerful legs. A bit muscular, but I don't think her height/weight is too far off Sanya Ross's.

Like I said highly improbable, but what completely makes it impossible?

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Like I said highly improbable, but what completely makes it impossible?

I cannot speak for others, but when I think it is impossible, I'm referring to the context of the original article. She did it in a workout, without blocks, spikes, competition, ect?? A time that if run in a meet, would get her to the finals?? Yes, impossible..

Now could she do it if she ran track exclusively for the next 10 years, was a running natural?? Maybe, but still highly improbable..

I'll by your context arguement. But High school girls have run 53.XX without 10 years of commitment if they are naturals, so why not a 28 ish year old woman (guessing on age). Again look at Donald Thomas.

Never High jumped to World class in a few weeks. Pretty much national class in a day in basketball shoes. Given that HJ is more technical than running the 400m I'd say that is more improbable than a top flight skier running a time that would make her the 50th fastest 400m runner in the country.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Bear in mind that Thomas was a basketball player and the approach for a lay up or dunk is quite similar to the high jump approach. He had built up most likely a great approach without even knowing it. Not downplaying his accomplishments at all, he went on to win Osaka.

The drastic difference is that for a distinct sport from athletics to say that you ran a time 2 seconds off the gold medal in the last olympics, a time that was ran many times in the qualifiers, is ludicrous. High school athletes have also ran in the olympics, won various gold medals, and while yes, they are phenoms; to insinuate that a hot (albeit a lil chubby compared to Chrissie) athlete that doesn't train for that event can run olympic qualifying times when the physical capability isn't there is the crazy part (IMO). Donald Thomas is a case of an athlete that had the physical ability and was kind of training for an event that he didn't realize he was much more capable in than basketball. Read: he was an unrealized high jumper playing basketball, not a baller turned jumper. Its unfortunate though that he didn't do better in Beijing, I've heard he's goofy as all get out and fun to be around on the track.

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When someone pulls laws out of their @$$, all we end up with are laws that smell like sh!t. -Skippy

You don't need the Carlsbad 5000. Show up at ANY race - of any kind - anywhere in the world. Thankfully, they don't hand out the checks and trophies based off what people say they did in workouts.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Quote;

"she is already the best female skier of all time."

if you don't count annemarie moser-proll, hanni wenzel, petra kronberger and janica kostelic you might be right. then again, she might not even be the best american skier ever, depending on where you rate tamara mckinney. but i'll grant you she's very good, one of the best everly]

With 33 world cup victories she is clearly tops in US skiers. and according to www.ski-db.com she is 6th world wide and may be moving up this year.

"With 33 world cup victories she is clearly tops in US skiers. and according to www.ski-db.com she is 6th world wide and may be moving up this year."

well, as i said, it's easier to rack up world cup victories now because there are more events, more opportunities, than in generations past. tamara mcckinney never had a chance to race combined, and only at the end of her career had super g. mckinney has a pretty good case to be made, still, vonn's overall world cup victories stand out. i won't argue the point. but best skier ever? (a case which you happily did not make.) not yet. but she's certainly got a great case to make for seventh best ever.

moser-proll: 6 overall world cup championships, 4 world championship golds, 1 olympic gold, 1 more olympic medals
kronberger: 4 overall world cup championships, 1 world championship gold, 2 olympic golds
janica kostelic: 7 overall world cup championships, 5 world championship golds, 4 olympic golds, 1 more olympic medal
hanni wenzel: 2 overall world cup championships, 2 world championship golds, 2 olympic gold, 2 more olympic medals
vreni schneider: 3 overall world cup championships, 3 world championship golds, 3 olympic golds, 2 more olympic medals
anja parson: 2 overall world cup championships, 7 world championship golds, 1 olympic gold, 5 more olympic medals
lindsay vonn: 3 overall world cup championships, 2 world championship golds, 1 olympic gold, 1 more olympic medals

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Because this 28ish year old woman has committed her life to being very specifically focused on a sport that involves 0 running. I could see it if she was world class in a sport that actually involved sprinting, but she simply isn't. She doesn't train for long sprints, and none of her ski training is going to teach her how to run fast for that long. Donald Thomas played a sport that involved a lot of jumping and foot placement already, all he needed to do was work on his form to adapt it to his new sport.

I just put an ST callout to Lindsey on her FB page. Hopefully she accepts.

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Ben McMurray
Northern Michigan Small Farm Venture ---> http://facebook.com/hillvalleymi [/size]

In terms of participation you're right.
In terms of revenue, you're way off.

"I just put an ST callout to Lindsey on her FB page. Hopefully she accepts."
I'm sure a world champ has other things to do with her time ... While 52-53 is out of range, all it would take is a 55-56 to truly impress. I see the haters have her down for a 70.

I've learned a long time ago to not pay attention to any times from someone who doesn't race regularly.

As an example, one of my Facebook "Friends" recently posted that he used to be able to bench press 600 lbs. The guy is about 6'7" and not even as muscular as most NBA players, let alone a big guy like Barkley or Karl Malone, neither of which can bench press anything close. I might have believed 400 lbs, but there is no F'ing way he could bench press 100 lbs over the VA state record!!!

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I find that 52s 400 hard to believe and call BS

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See, this is where the negative hyperbole is just as bad as the bogus time assertion. Did you watch the training clip posted above? How about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZTlFGqys-w

Pay attention at 1:44 - that's the exact drill you can see Kenyan distance runners doing in warmups.
Also take a look at 3:15.

You are correct that a downhill race doesn't "involve" running, but to say that means the sport as a whole involves zero running is a pretty insular view. Swimming doesn't involve doing situps. Does that mean Phelps couldn't hold his own in a situp workout? (Maybe he couldn't, but I'm not going to assert that his being a swimmer is the reason).

Dan, after watching Vonn's gym clip with the agility drills and sled work, you seriously think she couldn't get around a track in :76? 5 seconds of googling indicates that at some point (before she started to peak) she got pulled out on a long ride with the Mancuso sisters and (allegedly) realized aerobic fitness could be useful, and now she allegedly does 3 hours on the stationary bike. Yeah I know for every article like that there's one saying that the reason the british ski team sucks is they do aerobic training.

Apolo Ohno also does a sport that "involves 0 running"...yet he allegedly runs 1-2 hours daily.

Obviously Vonn didn't run a 52 second quarter, and I agree that the assertion itself is highly irritating to anyone who knows anything about running. But when it comes to academic speculation on what she or someone who trains similarly could pull off, to say :76 seems equally disingenuous.

Another thing that seems to be missing from the discussion... even if we all stipulate that the :52 is impossible (and I certainly do), doesn't the fact (?) that her regular regimen seemingly includes RUNNING 8 QUARTERS...at any speed...go slightly against the whole "she can't possibly even run :65, because skiers don't run" thinking?

Dev,

I think you are underestimating the mechanics of running a 65 second 400m for a non-runner. To run at a near all out effort and maintain control of your form takes practice. Granted downhill skiing is a largely about body control/balance, but it is totally different than skiing. It would take a lot of practice. I know I would look like a mess if I went out for a 65 sec 400m right now (not sure if I could even run this fast) and I have been running for years, but not practicing my sprinting.

I won't comment on the 400 time, as others who know far more than me about running have made excellent points. However, I have to weigh in on the status of Mrs. Vonn's greatness. I don't think it's fair to simply measure her greatness by the number of WC victories or medals she has racked up. If she stays healthy and motivated, that list will grow for many years to come. IMO, what really elevates her to potentially greatest of all time is the fact that she is one of those rare transformational athletes who has changed the way people evaluate what's possible in her sport.

Her athleticism, agressive lines, and strength have transformed the way coaches and athletes look at women's skiing. Alberto Tomba and Bode Miller did the same thing in Men's skiing.

I think I phrased that poorly. She doesn't train to run; nothing she does in her training is aimed at producing and results running. Running is tangental, not a focus, just a tool. Same way the plyometric warmups that Kenyans do are tangental to their running- doing the drill by themselves does almost nothing (Incidentally, I've never seen Kenyans doing that drill. Many others, but not that one). Shuffling around cones down a hill does nothing to make one a world class sprinter. Agility and balance drills don't make you fast. Its all about specificity of training. Vonn's training is set up to have her performing in a sport in which she never runs. Thats what I was getting at. Even cheerleaders run in practice occasionally.

Apolo Ohno's sport is physiologically much closer to running than is Vonn's, so I would expect him to run more. I highly doubt Ohno would run a 52 either.