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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [WoodenSword] [ In reply to ]
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does anyone not want to know what the other laps were? this was the 8th lap!

it would show up in a hurry i would think.

or perhaps she was running on an indoor track.....


Tim
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [WoodenSword] [ In reply to ]
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I would bet $1,000 that Vonn couldn't run and break 53 seconds for 400m on a track. There is absolutely zero chance of her doing it.

I also agree that there are very few men triathletes that could run 52 seconds for a 400m, I would guess less than 10 in the ITU WCS races and that's being gracious its probably more like 4-5. In 70.3 and 140.6 racing I doubt there are more than 1 or 2 athletes that could run 52, and again that's being generous. I would be surprised if anyone could actually run a 52.

Someone mentioned women, that is a joke. There is not a woman triathlete that could run 52, period.

Agree with all that, except for the dearth of 52 second 400m capability in ITU racing. I did a 53.x 400m in college, in a decathlon, on an indoor track, and I was a high jumper who did 4:49 in the 1500. 52 isn't that fast for guys who can do 15 or lower for a 5km.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [jcweb80] [ In reply to ]
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I would be surprised if she could run it in under a 65, no way in hell she even breaks a minute. You can't just go out and run a 400 fast, 100 or 200 maybe but 400 is where training makes a difference, these two sports are only slightly related athletically.


I seriously give Lindsay credit for 62 seconds.....could she go 52 seconds for say 400 YARDS? Perhaps. I don't think that 52 seconds for 400 METERS on the 8th rep is even remotely close to possible .... even for her. Also keep in mind that she likely does a lot of running training...you don't just go out and and run 8x400m set at the track off no run training....and really, even if she did them in 72 seconds, you have to be pretty well trained to do an 8x400m each in 72 seconds.

I would suspect there are very few Ironman pro triathletes on the planet that could do 52 second 400m, but I suspect there may be a few age groupers who are perhaps a few years out of Div1 college track programs who could do 52 second 400m easily, but at the same time, would have a hard time breaking 2:20 for an Olympic tri!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Nov 5, 10 13:40
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [QuadsofFURY] [ In reply to ]
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Kdw fixed that....he posted the link for the sports illustrated shot.

If Chris G is timing Lindsay at the track, I volunteer to run the workout...just give me a 100m head start per 400m rep.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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The the sport relies so much on *skill* is precisely why it certainly does not require as much aerobic *talent*.

Sure, but there's a significant aerobic component and a very significant anaerobic force component too. I consider it to be a lot like short distance swimming - a very demanding mix of aerobic/anaerobic talent and skill.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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NFW did she do that. I'd be surprised if any of the ITU men could even run a 52 second 400.


Maybe a better way of looking at this is:
  • 52 seconds is 13 seconds per 100m pace....how many triathletes or skiers can run that fast ?
  • Gebreselassie and Tergat ran 56 seconds in the last lap of the Sydney 400m ...that's 14 second 100m pace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D56ZAvcxN0

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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Just when I was about to post about my self timed 2:02 marathon
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [skip] [ In reply to ]
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There just happens to be video of her workouts. Being far from an expert on running, or skiing, or pretty much anything else, does that look like a workout that would assist someone in obtaining a fast 400m time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGorzSm5Rk

I am not sure I understand the comparison to ITU/Ironman athletes. How does being a great 10k or marathon runner make one a great 400m runner? Doesn't the very nature of training for distance have a direct effect on top speed?

And finally, while not saying I believe her reported time, I don't think its that hard to believe that just because someone excels in one sport means that they can't also be world-class in another. There are people who have won medals in both the Summer and Winter Olympics (although the first one that comes to mind was in track cycling and speed skating, both massively quad-heavy sports).

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Starting from scratch...
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Kdw fixed that....he posted the link for the sports illustrated shot.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Re: the whole aerobic issue with skiers - I'm not a scientist by far, but my N=1 knowledge agrees with the strange mix of aerobic/strength conditioning. My wife is a former D-I Downill/Super-G skier. Her legs are strong as anything, and once she gets going on inline-skates or a bike, she's like the Energizer Bunny.

Now I'm off to watch her run on the treadmill......


__________________________________________________________________
Eat right. Get lots of sleep. Drink plenty of fluids. Go like Hell.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [gbot] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, that's probably not a correct statement. Probably requires just as much talent and a lot MORE training given the amount of skill required at the pinnacle of the sport.

More skill? Certainly.

More talent in a general, overall sense of the term? Quite possibly.

More "aerobic/anaerobic talent"? Not a chance.
Last edited by: JoeO: Nov 5, 10 14:08
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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"I did a 53.x 400m in college, in a decathlon, on an indoor track, and I was a high jumper who did 4:49 in the 1500. 52 isn't that fast for guys who can do 15 or lower for a 5km."

The 400m doesn't work that way. Just because you can break 15:00 min in a 5k doesn't mean you can run a 52 second 400m.
Look at it this way, since you ran a 53. could you run a 15 min 5k? That logic doesn't work. I would agree with you about a miler who runs 4:10 but not a 15 min 5k runnner.

These guys are training to run 10k's or longer. Plus these guys are running in triathlon and are specifically training all 3 sports, not just a running focus. I would like to know what some of the pro's on here could run for a 400m. Not when they were in high school, college, but right now while training for triathlon. It would probably be close to the numbers I posted above.

I would say a decathlete has a much better chance of running 52 for a 400m because its an anaerobic event. A lot of speed is required to pole vault, hurdle and sprint, plus jumping gives you the explosive power.




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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Just a fewf comments (not specifically directed at Rappstar):

1) Downhill skiing (at that level) requires a tremendous aerobic ability. Skiers train specifically for a 1-2 minute high energy outputs events.

2) I have witnessed my former triathlon swim coach (a recently retired world class 100m breast stroker (1min02 long course) at the time, a guy who had never run (except for catching a bus may be). He went 58 seconds in converse cotton shoes (on a 400 m track, the 1976 Olympic training track). He won lots of beer on that 'under-60' bet that evening (on top of a harmstring sprain).

Having said that, I don't believe 52 sec on a 400 meters track, not for one second. But i would put lots of money on her over any Ironman athlete, male or female. Across sports, she is an absolutely formidable talent (think Gretzky like, Ali like, or Wellington like).

Francois in Montreal
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [TBinMT] [ In reply to ]
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apropos of nothing, but, last year while skiing at mammoth, i jumped onto a downhill course and passed a guy who was doing a training run. he was really digging, but, i guess i was just having a good day. at the bottom i waited for him. he flipped up his goggles and it was bode miller. he congratulated me. "you got me good," he said.

maybe i misremembered it. i'm just sayin'.

:52 never even came close to happening. not even remotely close. bottom line: if she was an actual track athlete, she has recorded times. we can look them up. if she was not a track athlete, and stepped out onto a track, cold, and ran :52, by herself, she should have stopped skiing right then and there. she's a great skier. but she would've been the best female quarter miler of all time. and the best half-miler. and probably the best 200m runner.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [TBinMT] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe she ran 400m repeats...down the mountain.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [fbrissette] [ In reply to ]
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Across sports, she is an absolutely formidable talent (think Gretzky like, Ali like, or Wellington like).


I think people who don't follow winter sports may not necessarily appreciate her greatness. She is certainly in the same realm as a Gretzky or Ali. She could very well be the greatest ski racer (male or female) of all time. Winning a ski race is much like winning a golf tournament - only the slimmest margins separate the best from those struggling to stay on tour, and it's the same dynamic as golf where all you can really control is your own performance. She is arguably much more consistent a winner than even Tiger Woods (although Tiger's been at it for longer).
Last edited by: gbot: Nov 5, 10 14:27
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [TBinMT] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's lame that a professional athlete would even bring this up in public and say shit like "no one believes me" or "seems a little fishy" when it's quite obvious that said time wasn't even remotely possible for someone of her physique, sport and training background. She should know better to check that out with her agent or training partners to get a sanity check before blabbing about it on the internet.

Slow news day.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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if she was not a track athlete, and stepped out onto a track, cold, and ran :52, by herself, she should have stopped skiing right then and there. she's a great skier. but she would've been the best female quarter miler of all time. and the best half-miler. and probably the best 200m runner.

At the risk of repeating myself, she is already the best female skier of all time. AFAIK if she suddenly became the best female 400m runner of all time she'd be taking a pay cut.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [JustJim] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's lame that a professional athlete would even bring this up in public and say shit like "no one believes me" or "seems a little fishy" when it's quite obvious that said time wasn't even remotely possible for someone of her physique, sport and training background. She should know better to check that out with her agent or training partners to get a sanity check before blabbing about it on the internet.

Slow news day.

I doubt she called a news conference about it something. It was probably something she said off hand forgetting that she was talking to a reporter or something (and not knowing enough about track and field to realize how ridiculous it sounds).
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [QuadsofFURY] [ In reply to ]
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ahhh sorry...there is no DH or SG in NCAA ski racing...SL and GS only.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [WoodenSword] [ In reply to ]
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"The 400m doesn't work that way. Just because you can break 15:00 min in a 5k doesn't mean you can run a 52 second 400m."

I personally would disagree. A 15 minute or less 5k is really fast. In high school I was only running low 16's for the 5k (cross-country) but run a sub-51 second 400m. Heck I would sometimes go out in a 54 during 800 meter races. Anyway I would be really surprised if some of these ITU guys who are running sub 5 minute miles for a 10K couldn't lay down a 52.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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A typical women's world cup DH run is in the 90+ second range so it's not like she isn't used to going full out for that amount of time. It does seem a bit strange but I wouldn't rule it out based on 'explosive' vs. 'aerobic'.

You also have to take into account that she is an absolutely legendary athlete - perhaps the greatest female alpine skier of all time.


But the specificity is extremely different. A huge part of skiing is isometric-ish contractions. I.e., in a 400m, count the number of steps taken. Now compare that to the actual number of distinct contractions in a skiing event, even like slalom. It's not the same.

Skiing is also seriously quad-dominant. Running - especially something "longer" like the 400m - is going to be predominately hamstring dominant. I would think that Vonn would do best where "out of the blocks" type motion - even something like 60m, which is run indoors - is way more her style.

it's not a knock at all at her athleticism. But I'd wager pretty strongly that if you hooked up an EMG to a WC skier and hook one up to even a HS track 400m runner, that you wouldn't see ANY sort of similarity in terms of muscle engagement.

Skiing is explosive in a VERY different way than running is explosive. It's just illogical. It'd be like assuming that Fabian Cancellara could run a 52sec 400m because he bikes really fast and biking is an aerobic, leg-dominant sport. It just doesn't make ANY sense.


I agree with this. 400m is not like the 40m-50m dash or even a 200m. I would be willing to bet that she would be an incredible 50-100m sprinter but 400m is a totally different event. I'm also suspect of the coach clocked deal. I was "coach clocked" with a 4.2 40 my freshman year in highschool, which in "real life" was probally 4.5-5.0. In the NFL that much difference determines where you are drafted! I would bet that her 52 is actually 60+. I've seen her training vids (many times) and that style is very similiar to football training where being extremely fast for a short amount of time is the most prized skill.

I also think it's amusing to watch endurance athlete's try to equate spriniting times with endurance times. An endurance athlete's idea of fast is different from a sprinter's idea of fast.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [onboost91] [ In reply to ]
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"The 400m doesn't work that way. Just because you can break 15:00 min in a 5k doesn't mean you can run a 52 second 400m."

I personally would disagree. A 15 minute or less 5k is really fast. In high school I was only running low 16's for the 5k (cross-country) but run a sub-51 second 400m. Heck I would sometimes go out in a 54 during 800 meter races. Anyway I would be really surprised if some of these ITU guys who are running sub 5 minute miles for a 10K couldn't lay down a 52.

I think you are coming at it from the opposite side. He didn't say that someone who can run 52 second 400 can run a sub 15 minute 5k.
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [skinny] [ In reply to ]
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There just happens to be video of her workouts. Being far from an expert on running, or skiing, or pretty much anything else, does that look like a workout that would assist someone in obtaining a fast 400m time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGorzSm5Rk


A lot of that looks like exactly what an elite 400 meter runner (or hurdler) would do in the gym (among other things, and along with lots of running). The drills, the squats, lunges, sled etc... Sure, it's a produced video, but none of it looks staged. No, she didn't run :52, but anyone who is still saying she couldn't run :65 after watching that based simply on the idea that skiing is so different from running is equally off base. There are (edit: or at least were 10 years ago) mixed gender groups of amateur tri-geeks busting out :65 at the end of track workouts who don't (didn't) train with anything like the combination of variety/specificity that is seen in that clip.
Last edited by: skip: Nov 5, 10 15:24
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [skip] [ In reply to ]
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The difference between a 52 and a 65 is astronomical. Like the distance from Mercury to Pluto astronomical...



When someone pulls laws out of their @$$, all we end up with are laws that smell like sh!t. -Skippy
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Re: Lindsey Vonn: 400m in 52 seconds [original PV] [ In reply to ]
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The difference between a 52 and a 65 is astronomical. Like the distance from Mercury to Pluto astronomical...

Exactly.
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