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Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz...
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This email just hit my inbox from a nearby LTF club::

"Are you fatigued, depressed, irritable, do you lack endurance, unable to build muscle, have trouble sleeping, or experience low libido?

Stop by our


FREE testosterone screening Tuesday only.



Learn how hormone therapy can revitalize your life! Hormonal balance is absolutely necessary for good health as you age."

Thoughts?

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"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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Hormone therapy is a regular medical practice for a wide range of populations and very often more active people will notice the effects more than others. Lifetime fitness is all about making financially sound business partnerships and hormone therapy is a booming business among older active people. Seems like a match made in heaven. The doses that are administered are small enough that no serious performance effects would be noticed anyways. You would really have to be running some serious cycles that include way more than testosterone.

One guy i road race with is on testosterone therapy because his workouts were wiping him out and left him ineffective at work. He is late 30's and very fit, found out his T levels were extremely low in addition to several other hormonal issues. He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same, but he can function at work after a hard morning workout or not sleep all weekend after a hard ride. Testosterone alone is not a huge performance enhancer, its you drugs like winny, clen, decca, masteron etc combined with testosterone + insulin + EPO + beta blockers + painkillers that will make a difference. One drug alone is fairly useless, in particular with anabolic steroid use as they need to be stacked, cycled, and then you also have to watch natural estrogen production so that then has to be controlled. In the end it is a mess and a lot of work to get it all right. Your local podium finisher or cat 3 cyclist getting some T injections is not going to instantly become superman.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is already going to be awesome.

Ian
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
Hormone therapy is a regular medical practice for a wide range of populations and very often more active people will notice the effects more than others. Lifetime fitness is all about making financially sound business partnerships and hormone therapy is a booming business among older active people. Seems like a match made in heaven. The doses that are administered are small enough that no serious performance effects would be noticed anyways. You would really have to be running some serious cycles that include way more than testosterone.

One guy i road race with is on testosterone therapy because his workouts were wiping him out and left him ineffective at work. He is late 30's and very fit, found out his T levels were extremely low in addition to several other hormonal issues. He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same, but he can function at work after a hard morning workout or not sleep all weekend after a hard ride. Testosterone alone is not a huge performance enhancer, its you drugs like winny, clen, decca, masteron etc combined with testosterone + insulin + EPO + beta blockers + painkillers that will make a difference. One drug alone is fairly useless, in particular with anabolic steroid use as they need to be stacked, cycled, and then you also have to watch natural estrogen production so that then has to be controlled. In the end it is a mess and a lot of work to get it all right. Your local podium finisher or cat 3 cyclist getting some T injections is not going to instantly become superman.

You seem to know an awful lot about this stuff.




My triathlon training blog
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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That's sum bitch made shit
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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You're first few sentences made sense, then it went a little off the rails. Drugs like T help health and performance, there is virtually no debate on that. How much they help is mabye up for discussion. It won't turn at MOP finisher into a kona FOP racer, but that really isn't the point.

I have no issue with people taking T, as long as they aren't competing and pretending to be clean athletes.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same,//

Really, the same as what? I think i can say with almost certainty that if someone is very low on T, and then they take some extra, that they will be vastly superior to their low T self. I see people say this all the time that drugs only bring people back to normal, but who's normal? Not theirs, so of course they are benefiting from these types of drugs. Their normal self is usually pretty pathetic, that is why they opt to take the drugs in the first place. But this does not mean they now get to race against the "real normal" people. That is the line we have drawn, either redraw it, or abide by it. Don't cheat it...
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same,//

Really, the same as what? I think i can say with almost certainty that if someone is very low on T, and then they take some extra, that they will be vastly superior to their low T self. I see people say this all the time that drugs only bring people back to normal, but who's normal? Not theirs, so of course they are benefiting from these types of drugs. Their normal self is usually pretty pathetic, that is why they opt to take the drugs in the first place. But this does not mean they now get to race against the "real normal" people. That is the line we have drawn, either redraw it, or abide by it. Don't cheat it...

don't you get it? Mike's saying that his buddy's T therapy is very selective and ONLY helps his personal life and not his bike racing!
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [tejanatab] [ In reply to ]
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tejanatab wrote:
-Mike- wrote:
Hormone therapy is a regular medical practice for a wide range of populations and very often more active people will notice the effects more than others. Lifetime fitness is all about making financially sound business partnerships and hormone therapy is a booming business among older active people. Seems like a match made in heaven. The doses that are administered are small enough that no serious performance effects would be noticed anyways. You would really have to be running some serious cycles that include way more than testosterone.

One guy i road race with is on testosterone therapy because his workouts were wiping him out and left him ineffective at work. He is late 30's and very fit, found out his T levels were extremely low in addition to several other hormonal issues. He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same, but he can function at work after a hard morning workout or not sleep all weekend after a hard ride. Testosterone alone is not a huge performance enhancer, its you drugs like winny, clen, decca, masteron etc combined with testosterone + insulin + EPO + beta blockers + painkillers that will make a difference. One drug alone is fairly useless, in particular with anabolic steroid use as they need to be stacked, cycled, and then you also have to watch natural estrogen production so that then has to be controlled. In the end it is a mess and a lot of work to get it all right. Your local podium finisher or cat 3 cyclist getting some T injections is not going to instantly become superman.


You seem to know an awful lot about this stuff.

If you have taken endocrinology/Physiology and a lot of chemistry most of this stuff is pretty common knowledge. And i am only scratching the surface, this can get extremely complicated to understand at a deeper level. I also have a good friend who is a bodybuilder and unashamed takes a whole lot of stuff and so i am familiar with most of these drugs. Also most of the drugs taken are all over the news, lots of information on track and field in the 80's and 90's, olympic weight lifting and the cycles they used before they were busted etc.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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Runguy wrote:
monty wrote:
He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same,//

Really, the same as what? I think i can say with almost certainty that if someone is very low on T, and then they take some extra, that they will be vastly superior to their low T self. I see people say this all the time that drugs only bring people back to normal, but who's normal? Not theirs, so of course they are benefiting from these types of drugs. Their normal self is usually pretty pathetic, that is why they opt to take the drugs in the first place. But this does not mean they now get to race against the "real normal" people. That is the line we have drawn, either redraw it, or abide by it. Don't cheat it...


don't you get it? Mike's saying that his buddy's T therapy is very selective and ONLY helps his personal life and not his bike racing!

No, i am saying he was a statistical outlier for men in the late 30's, we are talking 10th percentile and he had a real medical need. In fact he even got a TUE and everything is legit. His levels are still lower than most men in their 30's with therapy.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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Uh, you do realize that unless your friend has a therapeutic use exception (highly unlikely) he is cheating?
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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He does, pretty rare but he in fact has one.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
He does, pretty rare but he in fact has one.

Glad to hear that. Might have been worth putting in your original message since they are so difficult to get that most folks using T are in fact cheating.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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My initial post was also slightly done just to instigate the slowtwitch herd that seems to have some insane fascination with anything remotely near doping. I will say the t therapy is getting much more common and people who have no need are on the therapy. The innate problem with these clinics is that they need people to make money so are more than willing to help people out. If you want a few exta drugs no problem, just keep the cash flowing. The "good" thing is that it is medically supervised but it is also an easy was for an older athlete to gain an advantage. Just go look at all the people who crush all the local races and then never race nationals.

Personally i don't care as i'm 26 and still getting crushed in the cat 3's by 18 year old neo pro's.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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Spreading false info to getting people worked up...I think that's called trolling...
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
He does, pretty rare but he in fact has one.


Unless he was born without one or both testes or castrated, I highly highly doubt he has a TUE.

Other possible causes, He has an additional X Chromosome or a pituitary gland that doesn't work.

All of those are a bigger deal than "just feels tired after his workouts" which is listed on page 7 under "Not Gonna Happen".
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/TUE_guidance_androgen_deficiency_male_hypogonadism-testosterone.pdf

So there are 3 possible outcomes: He Does have one / He doesn't and is lying to you / He doesn't and you're lying to us.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
-Mike- wrote:
He does, pretty rare but he in fact has one.


Unless he was born without one or both testes or castrated, I highly highly doubt he has a TUE.

Other possible causes, He has an additional X Chromosome or a pituitary gland that doesn't work.

All of those are a bigger deal than "just feels tired after his workouts" which is listed on page 7 under "Not Gonna Happen".
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/TUE_guidance_androgen_deficiency_male_hypogonadism-testosterone.pdf

So there are 3 possible outcomes: He Does have one / He doesn't and is lying to you / He doesn't and you're lying to us.

I am not super good friends with him so did not ask for specific details but he found out about the testosterone issues after some infertility issues related to FSH, so i would assume there is some pituitary issue at play. I guess he could have lied about the TUE but then again none of us really care, he's not that good :)
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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Short and long term T use at various doses will indeed cause various life and performance changes.
But is it worth it?

Because long term T use (even at medically prescribed 'anti-aging therapy' levels) is simply a pandora's box. There is very little long term 'anti-aging T therapy' data out there for humans. But one thing is pretty certain: in most animals, testosterone is a potent cancer promoter.

No thanks.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
I will say the t therapy is getting much more common and people who have no need are on the therapy. The innate problem with these clinics is that they need people to make money so are more than willing to help people out. If you want a few exta drugs no problem, just keep the cash flowing.

You are correct, but if a person participates, they're becoming an unwitting guinea pig in a large longitudinal human study, but without the required informed consent. In the end, it all comes down to, ... how lucky do you feel ?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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T...and what else?
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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d00d wrote:
T...and what else?

Life Time Fitness recently made the decision to add T Centers to some of their select clubs. This means you will have medical professionals screening and prescribing sex hormones (drugs) within the fitness clubs.

I am not aware of anything else they might be prescribing, but with all the controversy over PEDs, this seems an odd relationship -- particularly considering the recent partnering with Ironman and Life Time's increasing role in endurance sport events. You would think the company would want to stay far away from something like this.

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"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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Who is the main group of customers at LT Fitness? They are trying to bring in customers and make people feel/look better. There is nothing illegal about hormone therapy. The overwhelming majority only relate PEDs to pro athletes, not recreational racers.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Jctriguy wrote:
Who is the main group of customers at LT Fitness? They are trying to bring in customers and make people feel/look better. There is nothing illegal about hormone therapy. The overwhelming majority only relate PEDs to pro athletes, not recreational racers.

Nobody here said that T is illegal. There are plenty of things that are legal that still probably shouldn't be in health clubs -- alcohol, for instance, which is sold in select LTF locations.

My feeling on this is that for a fitness company that wants to be a leader in the endurance sport world, being a testosterone provider is probably not the best idea.

---------------------

"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you are right."
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]
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Ga Tri Coach wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
Who is the main group of customers at LT Fitness? They are trying to bring in customers and make people feel/look better. There is nothing illegal about hormone therapy. The overwhelming majority only relate PEDs to pro athletes, not recreational racers.

Nobody here said that T is illegal. There are plenty of things that are legal that still probably shouldn't be in health clubs -- alcohol, for instance, which is sold in select LTF locations.

My feeling on this is that for a fitness company that wants to be a leader in the endurance sport world, being a testosterone provider is probably not the best idea.

What fitness facility do you work for?

Taken from a different viewpoint, LTF is just providing a full service facility for all your health and wellness needs. Same as having a sport medicine clinic or health food store attached/affiliated.
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Re: Life Time Fitness is in the "T" Biz... [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
Hormone therapy is a regular medical practice for a wide range of populations and very often more active people will notice the effects more than others. Lifetime fitness is all about making financially sound business partnerships and hormone therapy is a booming business among older active people. Seems like a match made in heaven. The doses that are administered are small enough that no serious performance effects would be noticed anyways. You would really have to be running some serious cycles that include way more than testosterone.

One guy i road race with is on testosterone therapy because his workouts were wiping him out and left him ineffective at work. He is late 30's and very fit, found out his T levels were extremely low in addition to several other hormonal issues. He is not winning anymore races than normal and his power numbers are the same, but he can function at work after a hard morning workout or not sleep all weekend after a hard ride. Testosterone alone is not a huge performance enhancer, its you drugs like winny, clen, decca, masteron etc combined with testosterone + insulin + EPO + beta blockers + painkillers that will make a difference. One drug alone is fairly useless, in particular with anabolic steroid use as they need to be stacked, cycled, and then you also have to watch natural estrogen production so that then has to be controlled. In the end it is a mess and a lot of work to get it all right. Your local podium finisher or cat 3 cyclist getting some T injections is not going to instantly become superman.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit. It sounds like your friend has a lot of stress at work/works hard and that's a stress on the body. Just because it's "work stress" doesn't give him, or anyone, a free pass to dope. You imply that he's at the front of the pack by mentioning "winning". If I lost a race to him and found out he was supplementing with testosterone because he had a lot of stress in his life I'd be pissed. My testosterone is at the lower end of a normal range for someone my age (has tested below normal in the past). Could it be caused by work stress? Maybe. But I don't say "hey give me some test and a TUE". I skip nights out with friends to get more sleep and go out of my way to make every meal as clean as I can.

I did a race in Naples last month where I was ~30seconds down the leaders coming off the bike. First time I've ever been that close. I knew I wasn't going to catch anyone because I'm a MOP runner but it was still cool to be that close. Just short of the turnaround I saw the leader and about ten feet behind him two guys in pursuit. The leader had zero pain in his face. Looked like he was just going out for an LSD run. The two guys behind him were dying. Was the leader doping? I have no idea but I can sympathize the anger and frustration people express about the issue. It sucks to think a person might beat you because they poked a needle in their ass or rubbed some cream under their arms, not because they were more committed to the sport.

If you have rules for the sport, follow them.
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