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Lance and Doping: Pay attention
 
new behaviors on this forum, starting now, thanks in advance for helping out.

1. no more lance threads, or lance as a topic, at all, in any context. this is not because we are either protecting him from vilification, nor is it because we are screening out all adulation. it is very simply that lance = abortion = gun rights = climate change. there is just no way that we know of to have a thread about lance not turn toxic or vitriolic. so, if you want to talk about lance, please do it on letrsun, bt, facebook, or anywhere but here. please abide by this.

2. very tight rein on doping discussions. why? see what lance equals above, that's what doping equals. so, when zackc asks a very legitimate and time sensitive question about doping, that's fine. and that's the sort of discussion we're happy to host. but no more of this free-for-all, food fight stuff. same thing. bt, letsrun, facebook, go to town. not here.

for those of you unhappy with this, i'd love to hear your views but forewarned is forearmed, i've been getting barraged by those who are afraid to post on this forum because of these recent discussions that have turned so acrid. this was always intended to be a place where folks can get their questions answered, and who could share their own personal stories and thoughts. let's give these newer forum members a chance to do this in a more appropriate setting. thanks for your help and understanding.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
A good move in my opinion, on the LA issue. It's like religion - you're not going to move someone off their belief, no matter what facts you hit them with, they will simply find ways to maintain their old beliefs.
On doping I certainly hope the folks at ST will continue to engage in thoughtful dialogue on the subject.
A clean sport has got to be everyone's goal and strong ideas on how best to achieve that have to start somewhere. May as well be here!

Clint
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I respect your job and what you have to do...

But if I must say.. this forum lately seems to be a lot of high-school drama on all accounts..

Lance is the biggest name in the endurance world.. like it or not..

That being said... I respect your job and what you have to do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
COROS Sports Science

 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
thank you.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I have a feeling triathlon is the next bubble...



__________________________________________________
I wake up in the morning and piss excellence. --Ricky Bobby
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I understand, don't necessarily agree, but you're right, the last couple of days have been ugly with the SuperFrog thread appearing to go the wrong way as well.

Only thing I'm wondering is that we've been told that the USADA report comes out in about two weeks. I'm pretty sure there's going to be a fair amount of "now what?" questions that are going to come out of that. Is this an open-ended moratorum or do you think we may be able to (civily :-) discuss those issues at some point? Likewise with any news regarding new anti-doping activity in the larger tri world. Any hope we can discuss any of that?

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Hey Dan, was the Superfrog Tri thread pulled because it morphed into a LA thread? I clicked on it to read about the race itself but it was deleted as I tried to open the link.

Will the rule going forward also mean no discussing races he has entered? i.e. rev3 half full in MD? Not trying to find a loophole in your rule (I generally avoid those threads as they end up being rather repetitive), but just curious about this. If Superfrog was pulled for some other reason, then that answers the question, but I have a feeling that is not the case.

----
@adamwfurlong
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I hope this sticks. Time to focus our energies where they are needed now that he's done.

If you mean it, please also refrain from writing about events where he participates unless you would have anyway. You know I'll give you shit if you suddenly think that something like this full half group hugging is worth being mentioned. :)

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
 
afurlong wrote:
Hey Dan, was the Superfrog Tri thread pulled because it morphed into a LA thread? I clicked on it to read about the race itself but it was deleted as I tried to open the link.

You didn't miss much. Hardly any discussion of the actual race and a lot of the usual "he said/she said" crap.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
new behaviors on this forum, starting now, thanks in advance for helping out.

1. no more lance threads, or lance as a topic, at all, in any context. this is not because we are either protecting him from vilification, nor is it because we are screening out all adulation. it is very simply that lance = abortion = gun rights = climate change. there is just no way that we know of to have a thread about lance not turn toxic or vitriolic. so, if you want to talk about lance, please do it on letrsun, bt, facebook, or anywhere but here. please abide by this.

2. very tight rein on doping discussions. why? see what lance equals above, that's what doping equals. so, when zackc asks a very legitimate and time sensitive question about doping, that's fine. and that's the sort of discussion we're happy to host. but no more of this free-for-all, food fight stuff. same thing. bt, letsrun, facebook, go to town. not here.

for those of you unhappy with this, i'd love to hear your views but forewarned is forearmed, i've been getting barraged by those who are afraid to post on this forum because of these recent discussions that have turned so acrid. this was always intended to be a place where folks can get their questions answered, and who could share their own personal stories and thoughts. let's give these newer forum members a chance to do this in a more appropriate setting. thanks for your help and understanding.

I responded to Zack's thread seriously and with information, twice. And I threw in a Lance joke because it was timely and before I saw this post.

My question is: next week the public will see the entire Lance file; are you really going to throw this ban on just as the evidence that will be a positive major step in anti-doping and may well help people see this wasn't a waste of money and time and effort or a bunch of made up junk. That alone should make this tolerable you for another 2 weeks IMO.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
While I understand the reasoning behind this it is a sad day indeed when one of the biggest names in endurance sports is omitted from discussion.

To be clear this pertains to the Lavender Room as well, correct?
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [uli] [ In reply to ]
 
Have you noticed the only Tri site not reporting on Superfrog?
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Chipmunk] [ In reply to ]
 
Perhaps if something comes up regarding LA or doping that warrants a proper discussion, Slowman can use his best judgement and start the discussion himself and moderate that thread tightly.

Otherwise, thank you. I think is a good move.

t

*******************************************
My Blog:
http://www.staggerforwardrejoicing.com
Ultrarunning & Parenting: There is no finish line.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I think this is a really tough decision that you had to make, because rightly or wrongly, Lance has been the biggest story in triathlon for the entire year (the good and the not good). ST is the biggest triathlon forum around, so it seems that of all places, this should be the place where it is discussed. Sadly, in my life everyday, I meet triathletes who say, "What's with all the LA haters on ST. He's not perfect, but those guys won't even let a civil discussion materialize....no way I'm saying anything in there". So I am sure, that is the problem. In a Starbucks, we can have a civil discussion about LA, the pro and the against and leave without lighting the place on fire. On the internet, this appears to be difficult to do, so we're left unable to discuss what truly is a big story in triathlon.

If think a better intermediate step would have been pushing this stuff to a Lance forum. At least the discussion could happen and people could just choose to avoid it (I think I've posted in the Lavendar room 5x in 9.5 years for that reason). When Oct 15th rolls around, I think we do need to discuss what is disclosed and an LA formum would be far better than a moratorium. If you recall the "what we are seeing on CNN thread", from the Baghdad bombings in the Iraq war, it seems like that thread and a host of others ended up being the catalyst for the lavendar forum. I think you can do the same now (not knowing what it takes to create a new forum).

I do think, however, if there is no discussion here in the forum, ST as a news source for triathlon should have a front page article on the major news in the sport, and that would include LA related news such as a win at Superfrog (for example in your triathlonlive days Katherine Williams would have addressed that). It could just table what happened with no editorial slant one way or the other.

What do you think about an LA forum. There seems to be enough who want to discuss the topic, yet it could be pushed away so that the main forum does not get dominated by this.

Dev
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Thank you. The 'noise' from the LA/doping discussions was long past tiresome.

The "Tempo, threshold, or VO2max?" thread should be a model with solid contributions from knowledgeable folks.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Chipmunk] [ In reply to ]
 
Chipmunk wrote:
Likewise with any news regarding new anti-doping activity in the larger tri world. Any hope we can discuss any of that?

Why would we not?

I agree with Dan: any news on the Armstrong case should be discussed on the bigballsonfire.com forum.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Herbert wrote:
Have you noticed the only Tri site not reporting on Superfrog?

What is Superfrog?

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Is it fair to assume then that discussing any further news that may come from the USADA investigation are still ok, though? Like if testimony or evidence becomes public, it's going to mention Lance, so how does that editorial approach go?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Dan,

My suggestion... Pick6 has a good point. The evidence against he who shall not be named comes out in two weeks. Keep that thread ban in effect but open up one sticky thread about tthe evidence when the info comes out and monitor that thread closely. All other threads on that topic or related to he who shall not be named should be deleted post haste.

Thanks,

BLeP

PS. you are an ignorant slut.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Chipmunk] [ In reply to ]
 
"we've been told that the USADA report comes out in about two weeks."

we're not going to leave you guys in the lurch. when that happens, we'll report on it, and i'll probably open up ONE thread for a couple of days, tightly moderated.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [uli] [ In reply to ]
 
"What is Superfrog?"

it's the race lance participated in today.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
 
BLeP wrote:
Dan,

My suggestion... Pick6 has a good point. The evidence against he who shall not be named comes out in two weeks. Keep that thread ban in effect but open up one sticky thread about tthe evidence when the info comes out and monitor that thread closely. All other threads on that topic or related to he who shall not be named should be deleted post haste.

Thanks,

BLeP

PS. you are an ignorant slut.

My information has it as coming out sooner even. Read the Walsh story on the USADA file. We'll see it this week.
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
 
"To be clear this pertains to the Lavender Room as well, correct?"

that's another universe. the inmates really do run the asylum over there. i haven't made this pronouncement over there but i probably will.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [uli] [ In reply to ]
 
uli wrote:
I hope this sticks. Time to focus our energies where they are needed now that he's done.

If you mean it, please also refrain from writing about events where he participates unless you would have anyway. You know I'll give you shit if you suddenly think that something like this full half group hugging is worth being mentioned. :)

So, I'm racing half full, and am going to a fundraiser dinner that he's probably attending; do I get to talk about that?
 
Re: Lance and Doping: Pay attention [pick6] [ In reply to ]
 
Probably, if you only talk about the dinner. However that thread will likely go into the gutter quickly and will get pulled.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 

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