Happy to discuss in person

Live in montana? If not near billings, kind of a useless post since if you look at my profile you know where I live.
Have a great day

I'm in Billings a few times a year actually but I didn't need to look at your profile to stand by my comments. You are taking this to a bad place and its simply juvenile (and you should know better). Either retort with a rational argument or stay silent; this Mickey Mouse "your tough behind a keyboard" stuff is overplayed and adds nothing to your point.

A....your the guy that made personal comment to me. Then in your response referred to me as a bitch.
I.see.no where I personally attacked you. I stated my "Opinion" . Nothing else to say.
Say hi when in billings. Good day.

Maybe. But she also has a rock solid and unwavering moral compass with respect to cheating. And she's also fiercely loyal. Those are two of the traits I admire most in people.

There definitely are several issues. There is evidence the UCI (among others) did look the other way when it came to Armstrong. However, during the time he was riding and winning the TdF, there were some fairly high visibility drug busts (e.g., Tyler Hamilton in 2004 and Roberto Heras in 2005) along with quite a few other minor players getting busted. For whatever reasons (including the $125,000 Armstrong gave to the UCI), Armstrong was never busted until the USADA (and Oprah Winfrey) came along.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Will do my friend, enjoy the game! (technically I said "bitch like")

Thanks......apologies for.any misunderstandings

Can't shake the feeling that this smells like the US Govt and the war on drugs..... Make easy busts that "show strength" while likely in collaboration with the real players. Hey, everyone is happy so long as there is an occasional bust showing a lot of dope on a table! The whole thing stinks......

We both win the internet today... I will, for my part, sincerely apologize for a juvenile response. I do believe if we sit down and talk through this we will have more in common than not but for the time being I can beat you up and you can beat me up so we both rock.....

: o) happy training

A compass that never points to franks doping. Doping that started pre-lance

But so what? I never quite understand the fixation on Betsy. A mediocre domestique's wife shows preferential treatment for her husband! News at 11. So what? She's not a judge. She's not the media. She's an outspoken wife who makes an entertaining quotation or soundbite.

If only we can fix Betsy then everything will be right again.

What does Lance need to do moving forward? He needs a plan and some good logic from a media advisor.

The reason I say that is a few of the anecdotes Lance tosses out there in the interview make marginal sense, and sound very contrived. Same as Oprah, that was a train wreck. Everything has been one-sided. Instead of opening up with an agenda, he's in response - never a good position to be in.

"Yes I'd dope again" is the real Lance, that is authentic. I think there has to be several options available to him, that would help his situation more than endless golf!

e.g He needs to make comeback, even if it means racing alone, if you follow.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

I'm not fixated on her, I could careless.....I didn't say she was "rock solid" with "high moral standard"...she's just as self serving as the rest of the rats at the wheel of chezz.

OK.

Maybe he can make a contribution still. I don't know.

But the problem I have is that I don't think many - if any - of the recent American contingent of cycling dopers have told us the whole truth. Only the truth they felt was convenient. All the guys who quit doping at the same time in 2007 (or whatever the year was). Landis, who, still, I believe, insists that the TdF winning stage where he tested positive was actually clean - a mind-boggling lie. Lance who still insists his triathlon comeback was clean.

I'm quite content seeing the whole group fade slowly to black without any attempt at comebacks or reconciliation. Cycling is plenty entertaining without them (though possibly only marginally cleaner).

If I remember an interview correctly. Landis did not say he was clean at that stage. He said he was not dirty with testosterone for what he tested for. He implied that he was on something else not clean

greg was understandably hailed as the greatest US cyclist ever :

- US champ
- world road champ
- multiple TDF champ
- scarce non-euro TDF winner which no-one thought possible
- miraculous TDF win after crippling hospitalization
- backed by trek
- cutting edge bikes and technology

lance came on by storm and quickly ticked all the same boxes - the media was all over his story and trek understandably redirected more and more tech development and marketing budget toward the UPS series and lemond bikes were slowly becoming a boutique label. trek still carried lemond label for 7 years after the interview. that might be surprising since I imagine most sponsor contracts would have a line about not deliberately putting the sponsor or their athletes or products in a bad media light. it just sounds like he was eclipsed

Maybe more accurately would be if to maintain funding the school needed good scores in standardized testing, so the teachers encourage cheating and look the other way when it occurs. The principal warns the teachers when state officials will be coming so they can warn the students and he designs the testing so it can be easily thwarted. When some students are caught, the principal covers it up. Most of the students cheat because everyone else is cheating and it is the only way to get the scores needed to get into college. The PTA knows about it but does not want school funding cut, so it helps protect the cheaters. The local press knows about it as well but chooses to print articles about the fantasitic test scores the school is posting. Then a publicity seeking wannabe Eliot Ness shows up, singles out the student with the best test scores, and pins the blame on him.

No. Landis said he used blood transfusions for that Tour. He also said he used testosterone during other Tours but says he did not use test during 2006 because he switched to HGH earlier that year or late in the previous one (I forget which) and found it was more effective with less side effects. But your larger points about the credibility of the witness statements stand.

Armstrong needs to wait for time to pass. The more it does, the more the general public will understand how much doping was taking place. More people will talk, books will be written, and it will become common knowledge that LA was just doing what everyone else was doing with full knowledge of everyone in the sport. Right now there are still people playing dumb by pretending they did not know.

The CIRC report could help, but I have the cynical expectation that it will be written to protect the UCI as much as possible. It looks like Cookson is setting up to use the report as a way of getting rid of people it finds embarrassing, like Riis and Vino. He might do a Team Sky con job, where those the general public knows about get the boot while those who are just as guilty are kept on. It is very telling that Cookson is pressuring Riis and Vino to talk to the CIRC but has not said a word about the other two dozen team managers, most of which were there during the height of the EPO era.

There is a chance that discovery in the qui tam suit will reveal information that will damage those who testified against Armstrong. The affidavits skipped over most of the riders' doping before and after Postal. In most cases the stories seem self-serving and less than credible. Let's hear about what Vandevelde was doing at Liberty Seguros and CSC or what Zabriskie was doing pre Postal and at CSC.

I wonder if LA did videos for the fifty best climbs in the fifty states or recreational cycling stuff if it would eventually help. He needs a crew of bros to make Rapha-like videos.

Maybe he could do the continental divide race. That would be bad ass, even if he just did it to do it without regard for time.

Well said and I believe we are in agreement to the principle of the matter. I do think the Eliot Ness example has merit but I would push back that the star student would have to also been complicit (I assume thats homogenous to your point) and bullying anyone who challenged his grades (i.e.. Deserving of prosecution). In other words I beleive justice was served but by questionable means. I also wonder how this story plays out if Lance was European (but that is a rabbit hole for another thread).

Still, I look at the lot of those involved and still see no one truly responsible being brought to task. Doubt we will see that day so long as "standardized testing" remains the benchmark.

Cycling was (is?) a dirty sport and there are plenty of people to share the blame. However, in your analogy you left out the bits about how the smartest student in the class was apparently the only one giving money to the folks in charge of the school. And how he was able and willing to spend more money than most of his classmates on cheating. And how he'd threaten, intimidate, and sue classmates, journalists, and others who talked about how he and the other students were cheating. And how Eliot Ness didn't have jurisdiction over most of the people and organizations involved. And how Eliot Ness tried to give the student with the best scores a chance to come clean but the student refused. And while the student with the best scores received the most severe punishment, others were punished. The student with the best scores happens to be more of a public figure than any of the other guilty parties, and goodness knows there are a lot of other guilty parties.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

No proof of that. Given that the principal and school administration is totally corrupt, you would have to be a hater with an agenda to think that other students were not doing the same.


You left out the German exchange student's budget for school was three times that of the American student's. He did not need to pawn spare school supplies to fund his cheating. Many other exchange students had larger budgets as well and were from countries where cheating was not prosecuted, even when officials were presented with a mountain of evidence.


Eliot Ness felt he is policeman of the world and should not have to follow rules like the statute of limitations or the lack of the concept of a non-analytical cheating positive until recent revisions of the school code.


Eliot Ness laughably claimed publicly that he was not targeting the student but in a case many years earlier, he offered a deal specifically to get the one student. Then he worked out a sweetheart deal with the parents of the other students and the aid of local police, again specifically to get the one student. In fact the deal was so sweet it violated school system rules and the international agency that wrote the rules forced him to alter the deal after the fact. When everything was in place, he essentially told the one student to come out with his hands up, with punishment left open ended, and the student could not trust him to deal fairly because a publicity seeking Ness has a long history of violating the rules whenever he pleases.

[quote Alvin TostigAnd while the student with the best scores received the most severe punishment, others were punished.[/quote]
They were "punished" by being suspended from school during summer break when school was not in session. Apparently they still received their allowance as well.

One student was burned at the stake during the home coming game as complicit school staff and the students, most of whom were also cheating, cheered the flames so the the school system and Eliot Ness could pretend that executing one student (who had graduated ten years prior) had made a difference to cheating today.


Yes, that is exactly how we should keep the school clean: Pick out a scapegoat based on popularity then let the rest of the guilty skate free.