I have never had a Lemond trainer and I agree with DCRainmaker, they can try and simulate road feel all they want you are still inside staring at a screen. I used to have the Elite Direto from 2015 (which served me well) but the Kickr Core is light years better. Still if the Lemond works better for you....sell the Core I am sure you will easily find a buyer. Thats my two cents.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Your statement implies either: A) You are underwhelmed by the feeling of the trainer changing resistance as a function of incline; or B) You haven't engaged the smart functionality of the Core. Both of these objections have merits but they speak to the way you personally use the trainer.

These trainers are designed to be used in different ways. The LeMond is not a smart trainer so it really comes down to how you engage with the smart functionality of the Core. Like a lot of people the smart functionality of my trainer adds significantly to the indoor training experience and I am paying $180/year in subscriptions for this trainer experience irrespective of whether I have a smart or dumb trainer. Over the life of the trainer I feel the extra functionality of having a smart trainer makes justifies the additional upfront cost of trainer given the total outlay i.e. trainer+software subscription+trainer setup. However if I wasn't paying for a software subscription and was just training to manual power levels I would also suggest the extra cost of a smart trainer is pointless. An analogy would be comparing a modern iphone to a late 1990s non-smart phone. What is better depends a lot on whether or not you are actually going to use internet on the phone.

As the previous poster says, it's a smart trainer and the Lemond is not. That's the primary difference and the main reason it costs significantly more. What was the reason you bought the Core? Was it for better "road feel", "smart" features, or both?

My dumb trainer before I got a Tacx Neo 2T was a KK Road Machine. I think it had pretty good "road feel". The main improvement the Tacx has in this department is eliminating the back wheel and the potential for any slip or vibration. However I could never have justified the expense of the Tacx on "road feel". I bought it primarily for terrain simulation on Zwift (automatic resistance control), for the direct drive, and to reduce noise even more beyond the already fairly quite KK.
Bear in mind "road feel" is incredibly hard to quantify or even agree on. It's a rather nebulous concept.

If you just want a trainer that feels nice to pedal, the Lemond might be perfectly adequate. If you want "smart" features, the Lemond can do nothing for you and that's where the Core should be judged IMO.

The lemond has always had a reputation for great road feel, but being loud in use. I don't think you can replicate the road feel from the lemond on a direct drive trainer. Having said that the lemond does not offer the training capabilities of the direct drive so you pays your money and takes your choice. I believe the TacxNeo is supposed to have the best road feel - but its like twice as expensive as he core you purchased.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I bought it because, well it's hard to find gifts for my wife after 20 years together and she was curious about trying a bike with power it seemed like she might prefer to try a online program like Rouvy. She maybe rides once or twice a week indoor for 6 months of the year, but often may not ride at all in a week. She mostly runs and yoga now; she won her AG or top 3 in most IM she entered back before we had kids over 10 years ago and we went to Kona 3 times but will most likely never do a triathlon again.

In reality she hates most technology and gets annoyed at waiting for GPS watch to start up and just runs it on manual mode and judging by the fact that it's been 2 weeks and she hasn't tried the new trainer yet and the problems I have been having with Rouvy trial and dongle stopped picking up sensors and now I tried it on manual mode and feel was awful compared to the Lemond I think I've just wasted money on this.

It is silent though which is good but we have a doubIe garage or a spare room in basement so noise isn't an issue think, but i think I will just sell it and get her Assioma pedals instead to use on the Lemond.

This. In the grand scheme. I would upgrade power meter pedals before upgrading a trainer.

A smart trainer is a purpose device that is optimized for a couple use cases: 1) structured training where you must ride to power targets, and 2) simulating virtual rides.

If your wife is no longer racing, then #1 is probably not a criteria for her. But, a good simulation app (Zwift, Rouvy, etc.) can be a blast on a good smart trainer. If she is not into the simulation apps, then a smart trainer would not be a major factor over a dumb trainer.

People giving this product crap, I'd be curious what your "trainer difficulty" was set to in Zwift.

If someone is complaining about how it feels while in ERG or "dumb" mode.........I couldn't care less. That's not why you buy a smart trainer. You buy one to simulate terrain.

A lot of folks I know use trainer difficulty to gain gears virtually in Zwift. That works, but I find the simulation best at full difficulty.

The Core has a massive flywheel. That trainer is heavy to move about. A lot heavier than my old Fluid 2. I know the belt incurs some gearing from the flywheel to the drivetrain, but from a pure "physics" standpoint I really don't think there's a leg to stand on trying to say some random fluid with a flywheel "feels better".

The simple physics of the flywheel mass belies a lot of these ideas. I think it's kind of like crank length. When I first got my 165 cranks on the TT bike, it was weird. Now, I don't notice.

I bet if someone stuck with the thing for a couple years and went back to the fluid..........they'd go "dafuq is this crap!!!".

I love my Kickr Core and think it's one of the best upgrades I've made in triathlon. I spent almost 450 hours riding that thing in 2020 alone. While I can't compare the "road feel", as other have said, that's not why you buy a smart trainer. I connect it to my phone and can easily control my power output to do workouts down to the watt (ERG mode). Also, it's a ton of fun to use with Zwift.

The OP is comparing to the Lemond Revolution, which is not a fluid trainer, but has a huge cast iron fan that acts as both resistance unit and fly wheel. The quality of "road feel" likely has to be experienced to be believed (as does the amount of noise it makes). Shane Miller (gplama) recently confirmed that he has not yet found a smart trainer that can match it.

Ok, for a Lemond.

Others weren't talking about the Lemond though. They mentioned other non-smart trainers or didn't mention also using a Lemond.

I just simply don't find the argument a fair criticism if all someone is after is being able have "road feel" while they are at the same exact constant speed and cadence. The road pitches up, down, changes in CRR. The wind pushes against you more or less from moment to moment.

I feel like it's more fair to include terrain simulation as a major factor in "road feel" if we really want to talk about road feel. Having "road feel" isn't simply the flywheel action of applying power on the downstroke and having your body momentum continue during the deadspot. It's the accel, decel, etc.....

I think the MOST realistic road feel then would have to be a Tacx with the road vibration simulation that's on a high dollar rocker plate.

Either way, I find it laughable if someone is talking about "road feel" with any trainer at all but they don't also own the fanciest rocker plate money can buy or your mind can create yourself.

If we're such connoisseurs of "road feel", that would be leaving 33% of the feeling of riding a bike outdoors on the table. As I'd argue terrain simulation is 33%, flywheel effect 33%, and physical rocking or movement 33%. I don't think flywheel effect even deserves all 33% compared to the other two.

I now recall that I had a kickr snap not a core. I deleted my post. Kickr snap ride quality was very poor. I can’t comment on kickr core.

I just last week went from a 15 year old computrainer, using P1 pedals, to a Core with the P1s. Still working out some power discrepancies but its lightyears better than the CT. No spindown (well, fewer of them and takes a minute), quick responsiveness, no wheel slip on big watts. No issues here

I have a Neo 2T and would agree on the road feel being the most realistic I've felt. When you hit a wooden bridge on Zwift or a brick road on a real route and the pedals start shaking, it feels a little more like riding outdoors.

That said, I think comparing "road feel" of trainers to outdoors is pointless. You'll never be able to truly simulate outdoor riding indoors, and it doesn't matter. They're different. Each has it's disadvantages and advantages. All you really need is an indoor set up you enjoy that helps you get in quality training, and it doesn't really matter if it's anything like riding outside or not.

It’s not pointless at all. The closer trainers get to simulating outdoor riding, the better. That’s something all manufacturers should strive for. The successful ones certainly are.

I'm not saying manufacturers shouldn't try, but the trainer and outdoors will always feel different. I don't think there's much to be gained by comparing the two, and I don't think they need to be the same. I never thought my fluid trainers felt like riding outdoors years ago, but I got really fit riding them all winter.

Plus, people get hung up on trainers needing to feel just like the outdoors and then they put their trainer in erg mode, which is nothing like riding outdoors.

Part of it is that feeling of applying power and have the small "dead spot" in your stroke where the hill and wind push against you but your body/bike momentum keep you going...........that is pretty complex. No matter how fast the processing power of a trainer, power meter, Zwift combo is.........in real life that interaction is live and instant.

Also, that "feeling" depends on the momentum of you and your bike. A one size fits all flywheel mechanically OR a software flywheel effect of that momentum isn't the same outdoors if you weigh 150 all-in versus 210 lbs all-in with bike and person.

It depends on sooooo much.

I went from no trainer to the Kickr Core and have had zero issues and love it.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I think the most important thing is what you outlined...basically your wife does not techie stuff, she prefers not to wait for GPS signal to run, so waiting for a smart trainer to connect to sensors may just irritate her (road feel or not). It seems that this would never work for her based on what you have stated as her desires. For your wife it seems that the Core is too much hassle and much ado about nothing.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Confirming again in the first week of 2021 that the LeMond Revolution still has my heart. 🥰 There's something special about how simple it is and how buttery smooth it feels to ride. I don't know how the OP picked them up so cheap. Here in AU they still go for AU$350+ pre-owned (~US280).

The debate over which trainer 'feels' best could go on indefinitely.... everyone has their own preferences. Having ridden almost everything out there my point of reference is going to be different to most.

If anyone has has the misfortune of riding a RevBox they'll know what a 0/10 trainer feels like. That thing is horrible to use. The LeMond Revolution is my 10/10. Everything falls somewhere in between.

There's always an element of "this isn't doing what I expect" when going from a dumb trainer to a smart trainer as it adjusts to SIM gradients when you've never had that happen before, or when ERG mode starts kicking your arse for backing off a little during an interval at threshold. Interactive trainers are a different beast.

The other can of worms would be what the best trainer/training really is for what you want to achieve. Having a Shi..er..RevBox might be just the thing for a track sprinter to work on their standing starts (for every damn crank revolution).... Maybe the Neo1/2/2SE/2T/Bike is the best for someone who wants road surface simulation in their indoor rides. There's no 'one size fits all' anymore.

Back to the OP - The CORE is effectively a Kickr 14/16/17 with a different frame, silent belt, proper thru-axle support, and broadcasts cadence too. Those previous Kickrs and the CORE are very VERY popular. My video on the CORE over on YouTube is over 300,000 views.. and still climbing daily. You'll have no issue reselling it at close to what you paid if you choose to move it on.

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Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava

The Lemond is a Direct Drive Trainer

So unless you buy a rocker plate then you can't complain about how smooth a trainer?

@gplama - Love your vids, thanks for the great work!

As of 2021, would you say there's any real reason to go Kickr full vs Kickr core? I don't need staggering amounts of resistance, and I've been overall happy with my Kickr gen1, although the power drift from warming up in the first 45-60 mins (I record both Favero Assioma power and Kickr power so I can see the discrepancy) is something I'd like to improve upon.

I picked them up from a guy who said he was buying a smart trainer to be able to ride zwift and I said why dont you just use your power meter as I shut the truck and he looked me like he didn't know he could do that

In short, no.

In long....

They're both quiet, compatible with almost everything, do power/cadence/control, have a pretty good ride feel, and it looks like the 2018 issues of bearings/vibration/etc with the Kickr18 and early CORE units has been addressed... for most...I'm sure someone will chime in and argue against.... but this is what I gather from having my ear to the ground on a number of forums and monitoring comments on my content.

As for the head to head differences.... It depends on the value you put on any of the differentiating features.

Kickr 5/2000:
- Comes with a cassette.
- Slightly larger flywheel than the CORE (but not all that noticeable, if at all...?).
- Can adjust/level the feet.
- It has the 'AXIS Action feet'.... These are nothing more than what a squishy gym mat or carpet will do.
- Auto-Calibration. (I've been throwing a few things at this to understand how this works.... It's not quite what I expect at the moment).
- Hard wired connection port.. yet to be used by anything. (Some people have been screaming for a 'wired connection' for trainers. I suspect it won't be a direct wire from trainer to your device....)
- Comes assembled. This is a big one in 2021, imo. These things need to be as close to 'out of the box' ready as possible.
- Has a carry handle. Nice... but it's still heavy to move around.


CORE:
- It's cheaper.

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Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava