Nice swim T, and I think I will pinch some of those 200's all mixed up. Regular IM gets to be such a grind sometimes that I find myself avoiding it. Mixing up strokes all over the place will help freshen it up. Back at hot pool and did a good set of 50's at the end;

5x100swim@1;40(1;23/21/19/17/13)5x100IM kick@2;00(1;52/49/47/44/39)
4x50fly@1;00(38/38/373/37)200p@3;30(2;36)3x50fly@1;10(37/37/38)200p@3;30(2;28)2x50fly@1;20(36/35)200p@3;30(2;25)50fly(35)
18x50 as(2x50 buoy@1;00/50stroke@1;30) back(39/39)breast(41/41)fly(36/34) buoys-(37/36 to 33.9)
200p(2;29)100IM kick(1;54)
3300SCY

Got 600 fly in today at an average 100 pace of about 1;14. As long as it is 50's, pace can be high, go to 100's and it falls off a cliff!!

Quick update on speed work...

Todays MyMainSet was :

4 x 75 on 1:30 done as: (goal was to carry 25 speed into 50 then 50 into 75 then rest and hit 2 x 100)
25max 50 easy
50max 25 easy
75max
75 easy
2 x 100 on 3min MAX
300 easy

The 75s and the 100s i paid attention to times
the fast 75s were a 43 and a 42 (close to a 41 i felt great on the second one)
The 100s were finally back down. Im giving myself a 57 high on the first 100 as I think i left a tad late and felt great. By the time I looked up I saw58 but it was a long 58 on that clock.
The other 100s were all 58s. Did not have that fall off I usually have.

After that we did our 6 x 25 max kick w board on :50 this time, however, as discussed Monty.. I left 5 seconds in front of eric (who is an amazing kicker) on the even number 25s. so 2-4-6. Which pushed me to hit 17-18s on those and he was finishing right on me doing 13s 14s and he loved it. IT was a great tech to push both of us

FInished w another 50 dive OTB at the end. But after the week of riding and running and strength work I was already cramping. I dont know my time but the video will be on my insta acct if anyone wants to see.
Off the block work is getting more normal now and feeling a bit better, despite the foot and calf cramping.

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

edit because SnappingT answered my question on another thread

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Just getting in tired everyday and going hard, body seems to be adapting. Dan came up with this set today, he said we could recover on the 400's and then do the 100's all out on the 1;40. Didnt have the heart to tell him this was not a high rest set that lead itself to "lots" of rest, but it sounded fun so we did it(cutting it one short because we were both completely gassed after #4) He did free against my IM.

4x(400swim@6;20/100IM@1;40)swim(5;27)pulls(5;01/4;56/4;56)IM's(1;17/1;16/1;17/1;16) 200IMkick@4;30(3;56)
15x50 as(2 buoy@1;00/1 fly@1;30) buoys-38 to 36's, fly's(37's)
4x25fly@;40(17's)
150pull(1;47)
3200SCY

Had dead arms 15 minutes in, but kept swimming ok. Think endurance is absorbing.

This is the month I get back in the pool for real. I’ve been in the pool three times in the last two years (even before COVID I couldn’t get it together to swim at the pool). I’ve done a little more open water swimming last year, but rarely more than a mile once or twice a week during the short New England summer. Only one open water session this year on my birthday.

I just moved to a new state, and while I was scouting out apartments last month I hooked up with a masters swim team to try them out (those were two of the three aforementioned pool swims). Finally moved this week. Today after a morning of unpacking boxes I went to the pool and did an embarrassing 1800 yards. My “warm-up” 200fr which felt like an easy pace but focusing on a strong flip turn was 2:21. I knocked out another 100fr on a surprising 1:08. This was just trying to get a feel for the water with my arms, barely a 2 beat kick. I tried to do a series of 100s and just had no stamina whatsoever pushing 1:12–1:15. Dropped it down to 50s and still felt like crap holding :34-:37. My shoulders feel like they have no strength or endurance at all.

I’m hopeful that joining the masters team and posting here will hold me accountable and start building my endurance up. Even if I just do three one hour practices to start, that has to be better than the nothing I’m doing now. Right?!

Even if I just do three one hour practices to start, that has to be better than the nothing I’m doing now. Right?! //

I have found if done right, 3x 1 hour swims a week is plenty to get faster and faster. Just cut out most of the bullshit easy stuff, and just go for it after a couple 100 of building into going hard. And you obviously were a pretty decent swimmer if your completely out of shape, and easy warm up focusing on flip turns 200 is 2;21.

Now if you tell us all that was LCM, then were really gonna hate you here... (-; And yes, we can hold you accountable here, times do not lie. And it looks like once you get a month of solid workout under your belt, you will have some good company in your lane, how old are you?? And welcome to the fishes...

Haha, SCY. I don’t know if I’d make it to the other end of a LCM pool right now. I had brief flashes of speed as a kid, top 10 in New England for any free event 400/500 & under between the ages of 11-14. I quit swimming at 14 because I was a stupid kid. I did masters for a few years when I was 30-31. Fastest 100yd free ever was when I was 31 and did 49.55. Nothing like some of the olympic trials swimmers posting here. Got into triathlon, then bike focus due to bad feet. Let the swim lapse and here I am. I’m 41 now.

Thanks for the welcome from such an esteemed forum member!

Welcome you are still fast in my book. Some days my first set is 8 100s on 1:30 and I go 1:11-14s when I feel good. Not much of a warm up just start getting after it.

Today I did a mid day swim in the sun

main set was some broken 200Ims all out

4 50s @ 2:00 IMO
100 fr ez,
twice through on this. 29 33 39 29 then 29high 34 40 29, I was probably about 1/2 sec slower on all the 50s on the second set. Fly was pretty good, backstroke took way too much energy to go that fast I don't think I could do that in 200IM race, breast I have small twinge in my groin I had to mellow out my kick a little to offset probably need to lay off the kick a few days. Overall decent speed and I am right at pre covid levels even though I am 18 months older. only 2700yds today felt good to blast it and get out early

PHEW!!! not LCM haha..
well done
welcome!

Where were you in new england as I am in boston.

Thats a fast 100 time for anyone! 49.5 is very impressive.

Get back to it and like Monty said, we will do nothing but encourage you here. Well, monty might tell you you are stupid, like he did me, before xterra but we can get to that later (Im joking monty, I loved your feedback and perspective.)

Are all still planning on Greensboro in a few weeks??
I am entered but have not booked flight or hotel yet. Need to nail this down.

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Are all still planning on Greensboro in a few weeks??
I am entered but have not booked flight or hotel yet. Need to nail this down. //

I dont think I ever called anyone stupid directly, but I do have a habit of saying what I would do, and why would any sane person not do the same? (-;


I got my flight, car, and hotel for the big meet, and I believe Tony has his stuff all booked too. Not sure what anyone else has done, but like all trips I plan in my life, dozens and dozens all say YA!, and in the end it is me and a couple other adventurous folks that actually pitch up. Used to do a big Baja surf trip every year and had 10 guys all lined up ready to go, and most of the time it would be me and my dog, and maybe one or two others for a short period..


It looks like you are swimming really well, in spite of all the other Tri training you are doing. That is the tough part, you have to thread the needle a bit, try and back off the running at least for awhile, and just mostly swim for the last couple weeks. The other stuff will come back super fast afterwards, and you only have that one shot on the blocks to do great swims, so give them your best shot.


Tony just swam a really great set of broken IM's too, I know he is gunning for a sub 2;20 and it looks like he now at least has the speed for that. I'm inching down some times, but mostly by distance free lately. Gonna do some really hard sprint strokes these next couple weeks and see how that goes. Everyone who will be going should be there by Thursday night at least, so maybe a dinner either that night or Friday, or both??

Oh Im still planning to go!

Just need to dot the Ts and cross the Is (yes I messed that up.. on purpose)

And no you didnt call me stupid. I was only joking.

I will fly down wednesday night I think... I need to revisit but I iwll get it done.

Overdid it the past couple weeks overall. And I am planning to back off the running and leg work (strength) the next couple weeks to add some upper body before resting. I aint doing all this speed work for nothin Monty!!!! haha

DaveD

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

I wouldn’t add anything in on the weight program at this point. I’m already planning to start cutting it way back in 7to 10 days. Unless you are just training through the meet anyway then go ahead and hit it. The email I got for thee meet said two sessions for the meet grouped 60 and over and under 59 so Monte is by himself. I am arriving Wednesday evening. Psyche sheets being posted soon maybe Monday we can see our seeding.

So the first two days of distance events, they are mixing up all the age groups and just doing it by event. So you and I will be in the 400IM together, maybe Dave is in the 1000 free??

But after that, yes the sessions are split at 60+ and below. I may try to sneak in and see you guys swim, I. would imagine if you are an actual swimmer, it might not be too hard to get in the other session. Looks like just under 900 swimmers too, so less than half of a normal champs going by the last few meets they held. Our best chance to get top 10!!! We can only race who shows up, probably mostly slower folks sitting out anyway..(-;

I grew up in Plymouth, MA but have been living in Lincoln, near Concord/Lexington. Just sold that place to move down to Greenville, SC.


Thanks! Looking forward to getting back in shape and maybe doing a Masters meet or two to gauge my progress.

Thats funny! Im in wayland.
did you swim at the wayland high masters group?

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Small world! No, my work had a BSC with a pool in the same building, so when I was pool swimming I would do it there by myself.

My lifting is not heavy or crazy but more enhanced maint and activation.

So, a couple weeks of doing some upper body stuff wont hurt me. Ill be well rested and stretched.

Im in for thurs fri and sat... so I will fly in wed afternoon in time to maybe get a loosen up swim and see you guys for dinner??

Thursday I swim the 5 free
Friday I have the 100IM and 100FR
Sat I have to 100fly and 50fr

Ill prob head out sat night if there is a flight late enough as I need to get to Montauk for a wedding... oof.

But those are my events.

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Back in the pool for 3300 SCY
800FR (11:16) 4x50K on 1:15
4x200P on 3:00 (2:34-7) 4x50K on 1:15
8x100 on 1:45 alt IM/Stroke (1:25-1:38)
4x50K on 1:15
8x25FR on 30 (17-18)

This group/thread is getting fast! I’ll be watching you guys peaking for USMS. You all are getting faster as you get older which is awesome and inspirational. Keep it going.

Well, week #7 of Flipturn School is in the books. I did 5 sessions, and I really don't have any sexy new splits to announce. There was a 6:45 400m slog, and on another day I tried a sub 3min 200m, only to stop at 150m, after convincing myself that I was too tired that day, and that I was off 3min pace. My 150m time was 2:12 - DAMMIT.

The best thing that I can say about the last week is that flipturns are beginning to be Not A Thing.

Still, I do get discouraged at times. That 6:45 really was a slog, but my open-turn PR is 6:14. I'm wondering if I can get near 6min right now, if I revert back to open-turns. I'm tempted to sneak in some open-turn stuff next week, just to see where I am at. Is that so wrong? Some might say "It takes 5 years to get good with flip-turns". But my peak swimming years might be the next 5 years. Do I spend those peak years doing this flip-turn experiment?

---

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

Wait....so people are often in the pool for more than 1 hour? :)

---

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

DO NOT give up on the flip turn!

Okay today was some off the blocks sprints after taking Friday off.

2k of misc swimming then I got my GF to time me.

5 x50s with as much rest as I wanted 3-4 minutes approx

50 fly 28.95
50 fr 28.3
50 fly 28.67
50 fr 27.75
50 bk 34.15

So hit the water for the first 50 and I could tell I was slow but just gave it my best. 3 & 4 were a little faster I think I got warmed up after 1&2 and the backstroke my start was bad or was mistimed. Sent GF home and did 10 more 25s otb. Fly/fr/bk the fly/fr we’re 12/13 and bks we’re 15 or 15 plus which was pretty good and I know it was accurate cause I was looking right at the clock as I pushed

Finished with 6 100s pulling 50fr/50br on 1:50 total about 3400 and then weights and Abs so long practice

I won't ever give up completely. I vow to do flip-turns in all of my WU/CD swimming (which is a big part of my sessions), but from time to time I may allow myself open-turns on certain time-trials, until I become convinced that I am faster with flip-turns, whenever that is.

I really do think I can attack my dream (sig) soon, with open-turns. That might be driving this.

---

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

You last set of broken IM's got me motivated to do some faster stuff, and Dan obliged me in my sets today. First Saturday morning we have swam at our high/hot pool, nice not to have to drive so far now to get in a weekend swim, even if it is hot..Did a big mix os stuff for my 1k, 400IM, and 200 IM:

5x100s@1;40(1;23/21/19/17/12)100IM kick(1;54)
300swim for time@1k pace effort to start, then descend(3;47--1;17/1;17/1;13) 100IM kick(1;56)
12x100 as(2x buoy or pull@1;40/2;20/stroke IM order@2;00)buoys(1;18/16/16/16) pulls(1;12/1;09/1;15/1;13) fly(1;16-38/38 new PR)back(1;21)breast(1;25)free(1;08)100IM kick/50swim
4x50 IM order on about 3 minutes or so, had Dan time me, all push offs from shallow end--fly(31.04) back(37.06) breast(39.00) free(28.12)
2550SCY

So 100 fly was good splitting, but I was trashed last 6 or so strokes, so could not have gone more at that pace. Back was choppy but breast felt good and 1;25 was solid for this pool. 1;08 I believe is my fastest 100 swim, and was on tired arms doing it. Good training I think for the 400 IM.

The 50's were all pretty good except for the breast, super disjointed trying to turn over fast. Good thing I dont have any races where I have to do that, so will concentrate on the distance stroke more. Today we had a new guy we had never seen at the pool, dan commented that he saw him doing 11 second 25's, which just doesn't happen at this pool. So we introduced ourselves, turns out he swam an local JC 8 years ago and did a 20.9 for 50. I asked him to swim next to me for my last 50 free, honestly was feeling like I would have trouble just breaking 30. Told him to do a 29 flat, but his speed took him to a 26, while I was quite surprised to see a 28 flat from a push. So looks like a dive fly would be 29+ and free around 27 flat, really good speed right now for me..

You are always a step ahead of me.

Today’s set 1-2-3-4-3-2-1 IM on 1:45 base. No breast did double backstroke. 400 was a 5:32 with a 1:13 fly split. Last 100 was a 1:18. Rested two minutes and did a bonus 100 went a 1:11 again no breast. 3600.

Did that set mostly to test my fly looks like it’s good enough. 75 at almost full strength not much problem, 100 I died a little but it’s not going to hurt me

Well - had my race this weekend. I've been swimming 2x per week with masters in our 26.5 meter pool, ~3000 meters per session. Based on how I had been going, I felt pretty confident headed into the race about the first 2 of 3 loops, and hoped to just make it through the last. Come race day, I found out that there was a beach run between loops to go over the timing mat again, and that totally threw me. I totally had a freakout diving back in on the second loop and had to flip to my back to catch my breath again. Got passed by the 2 guys who were sucking my feet on the first loop and never got back up to them again. Water in the mid/upper 70's. I also went back and dug out my old Blue Seventy body suit from 2008 trials, because i thought i rememberd it doing all my kicking for me. Result - 3rd out of the water in my wave 19:59 for 1500 meters, including 2 beach runs and the run to transition.

Here's my painface.

---

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html