A few thoughts..

1) I'm hoping you requested permission to use his quote on ST. Otherwise, I see that getting pulled pretty quick as it's mostly out of context. I bet CBS has a reporting position for you. (tee hee)

2) Saying "Zipp 404" isn't completely accurate because of vintage, tolerance, spec, etc. It's well understood Zipp does OEM rim work for several wheel manufacturers. In some instances, this is using old-spec'd rims. A Zipp 404 is not always a Zipp 404.

3) Depends on who you ask....but some think the rims is most important, some say the hub, some say the build quality.....

4) Does this really surprise anybody? The carbon rim market is soooooo dramatically tiny, everybody wins when/if manufacturer share technology, supplies, manufacturing, beer or whatever.

5) Support the smaller wheel builders, Zipp included!

Wow, very defensive post.

Velomax makes really good wheels and the hubs are dynamite, or so I have heard.

What's defensive about it? Do you mean accurate?

Yes, I love both my Velomax Circuits (training) and my 909s....and think it's a great idea. But that wasn't the nature of the post. The context was saying an OEM is supplying the exact same rim, which is still unknown based upon the answer. We're no closer now than before the post...

A Zipp 404 is not always a Zipp 404

Ceçi n'est pas une pipe - This is not a pipe.

"Ceçi n'est pas une pipe - This is not a pipe. "

no cedille under the first c...and this sentence (in french) is VERY ambiguous...depending on who you talk to...

Such an insightful 1st post.

Are we all re-registering now to protect our comments?

the post is not insightful indeed, however, this post with this nickname is actually quite smart, if you know the work of Magritte.
Not insightful, smart nonetheless ;-)

Are you saying he/she is a dumb smartass then? ;o)

Are we all re-registering now to protect our comments?


Sorry, the comment AND username was a joke/comment on the sentence A Zipp 404 is not always a Zipp 404

replace the words "Zipp 404" with any noun to see why I thought the sentence (not necessarily the content) was odd. Example: A bird is not always a bird.

For more on Rene Magritte: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%E9_Magritte

Sorry, no offense intended.

[reply]A few thoughts..

1) I'm hoping you requested permission to use his quote on ST. Otherwise, I see that getting pulled pretty quick as it's mostly out of context. I bet CBS has a reporting position for you. (tee hee)

2) Saying "Zipp 404" isn't completely accurate because of vintage, tolerance, spec, etc. It's well understood Zipp does OEM rim work for several wheel manufacturers. In some instances, this is using old-spec'd rims. A Zipp 404 is not always a Zipp 404.

3) Depends on who you ask....but some think the rims is most important, some say the hub, some say the build quality.....

4) Does this really surprise anybody? The carbon rim market is soooooo dramatically tiny, everybody wins when/if manufacturer share technology, supplies, manufacturing, beer or whatever.

5) Support the smaller wheel builders, Zipp included![/reply]



1)Nope, didn't ask. I'm not really sure how it could be "out of context" as that was the entire content of his message to me, and my question was whether or not they used Zipp 404 rims. Well, he did ignore my question about whether Velomax had any plans for a disc... If you were following the thread with SuperDave re: Velomax wheels, this is the follow up & confirmation I said that I would post. If asked [by Easton/Velomax], I will pull the post - but I can't imagine why they'd ask me to.

2)Yep, I don't think these are the new '05 dimpled rims. But they're still 404 rims.

3)I'm thinking that a set of kickass rims, plus kickass hubs, plus double-threaded spokes (no bend), plus the excellent build quality that Velomax has developed a reputation for will produce a very nice wheelset. Faster than the dimpled 404's? I have no idea. But a damn nice wheelset nonetheless, and IMO, a stronger wheel overall.

4)Not surprising given the diagrams on the Velomax website, but it confirms the suspicions we discussed previously.

5)By purchasing a Zipp product, you are supporting Zipp - it doesn't matter if the hubs are American Classic, Phil, White, Velomax, or whatever. Zipp is still making money off the sale of these bad boys.

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I must've missed a prior post. What's wrong with Zipp making money of selling their patented rims to other manufacturers (i.e. Easton/Velomax)?

certainly not a dumbass. Anyone who has a bit of knowledge of the work of Magritte and who writes such a post using this pseudo has to be pretty sharp...

At least he didn't say "Fais-moi une pipe!"

http://fautrigoler.free.fr/html/petite_pipe.html

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Well, I guess someone figured out what I meant by 'it can be a very ambiguous sentence' ;-)

Absolutely nothing - it was in reply to his pt #5, which stated that we ought to support companies like Zipp. My point was that in purchasing a downstream Zipp product, we are.

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Thanks for posting. The information about who builds what and the original sources are frequently protected with confidentiality clauses, even when the information is publically well-known.

I prefer to just speculate on such things and voice my opinion, rather than say, I work for BRAND X, and we make BRAND Ys stuff.

It can be a bit annoying, and a bit self-serving, and I'm sorry for that.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

This thread brings up a reoccuring issue. Why should the bicycle industry be exempt from the critical anyalsis leveled at all other segments of the economy? Some people seem to see the producer-consumer relationship as a good old boys club rather than a market in which consumer interest is served by free and open information.

LOL. Rode with my friend who is the Easton rep today, told him about the post...and had a nice chuckle. He reps several companies....and 2 of them are very strict concerning message board gossip. (He didn't mention Easton though).

There are basically two ways to answer your question. The first is that the bike industry (specialty) is VERY small and companies must work together in order to development, design, manufacture and sell product. The system was not set-up to accomodate people questioning and buying based upon the supply chain, but rather the end product. There is "friendly competition" where proprietary information is shared....and much of this openess simply would not fly in any other industry. The reason is that most of these companies believe in organic industry growth rather than simply gaining market share.

The 2nd answer is there is more money in manufacturing than distribution or retailing.

I do have a question....why are you better off knowing who does OEM work for who? How does this help your decision on buying a particular product? How does knowing the supply chain effect your decision? Would you like to know the material supplier of each manufacturer?

Let's say you were the Easton CS rep mentioned? Would you want your email shared on the internet w/o permission or intention to post? Would you fell "set up"? How about you post your real name and where you work.....along with some company propietary information.....in which the company will be changing in the near future.

Bike reps share privy information all the time...that is how they sell product. But, quoting them out of context is lame in my book. Don't take that personally, it's just my opinion. We'll agree to disagree....

I would always like to know as much as possible about the product I'm purchasing. In this particular case I would only be more inclined to buy the product in question: Zipp is the industry standard.

Regarding Khai's quote: How the rep feels is irrelevant. He is a businessman representing his company. If he screwed up in letting this information out it is his fault, not Khai's. If a Brooks rep told me that their new running shoe was really a rebranded Asics you can bet that I'd post it. This is no different.

Hey man, it's cool; I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to state some things definitively - especially given your position. I try to get input from as many sources as possible, and having any degree of "insider knowlege" (be it official or personal opinion) is highly valued.

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Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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[reply]Bike reps share privy information all the time...that is how they sell product. But, quoting them out of context is lame in my book. Don't take that personally, it's just my opinion. We'll agree to disagree....[/reply]

Hey man, you're entitled to your opinion and I don't take issue with it - I just fail to see how my copy/paste of his email could be in any way construed as "quoting out of context" when it was a reply to a direct question that I had also posed here in this forum.

As for your other point about how much information we want, information is power - and more is always better (within reason, of course). Knowing that Easton/Velomax is using Zipp 404 rims for a given model will certainly increase the odds of my purchasing their product, and I would guess the same holds true for others here as well.

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Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Does anyone know where these wheels can be purchased? Any online stores?

   

RE: Velomax using Zipp rims.

Was this a secret?? I thought I read in triathlete or somewhere that Zipp would supply rims to Velomax.

HH

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev