I am not really up to date on who tested positive besides Tyler Hamilton, who else???

Heras

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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

I think anybody who really paid attention and was unbiased and not blinded by all of the Lance hype would have come to that conclusion long ago before all of the recent positive tests.

I just read Lance Armstrong's War and I have to say I came away thinking that LA dopes.



I think it is very curious how defensive he gets and how he frames it as an attack against all of cycling.

For the love of God, please take this retreaded discussion over to the Lavender Room...

B.

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Is there any more than two people? out of what about around 20 total?

MMMMWWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Everyone dopes except me. One of my new year's resolutions will be to dope in 2006 so I can start winning.

I certainly agree it is a retread. I could have gone on and on about what I believe, but it has been done to death.

As for the LR, hell this is more on topic than a whole lot of threads on this forum. At least it has to do with cycling. Look at the thread list on the Triathlon forum.

Apparently Dan's manifesto on OT threads a few weeks back had little effect.

Where's sparticus when you need him.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Just to play DA to your DA...

We could play 6 degrees of LA and connect a bunch more positive tested dopers to Lance. All that circumstantial evidence and about $1.98 will get you a cup of Starbucks...

I'm with you in that I hope it isn't true. I'll assume so until it's proven otherwise. That doesn't mean we're blind to things, though.

Diablo,

I too recently read LA's War. While I'm not convinced he doped I'm beginnning to think this whole question is a bit like choosing to believing in "God." Without conclusive scientific evidence some never believe - others see circumstantial or anecdotal evidence and say "How could "God" not exist." "How can you not believe."

I know this: If I dedicated my life and trained my ass off in order to Xterra or Hawaii seven different times without ever testing positive for drugs and people accused me of being a doper, I'd be pissed (no pun intended)!!

Sure ya could say, F#%k 'em, but some people aren't that easygoing and are more wired to respond with "You want to Attack me then we are going to Battle and I"m going to win this War." Hence LA's continued defensiveness, lawsuits and public fight against these F#@king Trolls! ;)

I am Sparticus [sic].

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Lewis

I would stop short of any implications of Mr. Armstrong on this. he has been quite adamant on the matter.

Just a thought.....although I hope he has not been doping.......even if he did, doesn't everyone in the TOUR? He still beat em at their own game.

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"I have no fear of losing my life - if I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it. "
Steve Irwin

Dude... chick... get a little creative and find a new name...

Watch a DVD from the 99 Tour. LA's story hasn't changed one bit. He was being attacked in 99 that he was a doper. The problem is that it's 'old news' because we've heard it so much.

I think he's got one huge big ball if he stood up on the podium in front of the world after winning 7 and lied about doping.

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TheBikeRacer.com

Of course, one could also draw from these occurrences the inference that LA's erstwhile teammates, no longer supported by the superior infrastructure and methodology of Disco, and now forced to ride for their own paychecks, are forced to resort to doping to meet the expectations of their new circumstance.

Which is less likely:

- LA/Disco are dramatically better at doping than everyone else?

- LA/Disco are dramatically better at riding Le Tour than everyone else?

While feeling neither compelled nor prepared to apply this particular application of Occam's Razor, I would submit for consideration the Salvodelli/Discovery victory in the Giro. Superior tactics, guile, race savvy and planning resulted in victory for a team that had neither the strongest rider nor the strongest team in the race - merely the smartest, best prepared, and most resilient on both counts. Drugs can't buy you this...





.

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[reply] I hope it is not true, but I think more and more indicators point to LA using PEDs.[/reply]

I think a more likely scenario indicates the brass at US Postal being against PED's. The riders who wanted to walk that path went to other teams where that behaviour was either encouraged or at least tolerated.

I don't blame Ferrari, I blame Schumacher.

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Lewis

"Watch a DVD from the 99 Tour. LA's story hasn't changed one bit. He was being attacked in 99 that he was a doper. The problem is that it's 'old news' because we've heard it so much.

I think he's got one huge big ball if he stood up on the podium in front of the world after winning 7 and lied about doping."

I think he has one huge ball. The fact you keep repeating a lie doesn't make it true in the face of evidence to the contrary. Like the fact he continues to repeat over and over that he has never tested positive for any PED. Actually he tested positive for a steroid in the '99 tour. He claimed it was from a steroidal saddle sore cream. Although the masseuse or whoever she was that made all the claims in LA Confidential says the USPS doctor backdated the prescription after the test came back. I think he has a very loyal inner circle that will protect him (and their) interests at all costs.

What if it's not a lie? You are automatically assuming that he is lying. Dude's story hasn't changed one bit in 7 years.

As for the steriod cream...I've read (cycling news, Lance Armstrong's War, somwhere) that the amount he tested positive for wasn't' even enough for a positive result, but the media made it out to be something it wasn't - and oh yeah, how does the media 'find this stuff out'? So that's another spin on the steriod cream. And I don't think what his socalled positive for is even classified as a PED.

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TheBikeRacer.com

"What if it's not a lie? You are automatically assuming that he is lying. Dude's story hasn't changed one bit in 7 years."

His story hasn't changed? So what. His "story" is just denying that he's ever done anything wrong. That doesn't do a thing to convince me. Practically every athlete that has ever been accused or tested positive for something has denied it and continues to no matter what the evidence. I'm sure a few of them are telling the truth, but the tests can't all be wrong.

As for automatically assuming he is lying. I don't automatically assume it. I base my opininon on everything I have read and seen over the years. If one or two people were saying things, it might be explained away. But there have been so many, most of whom I can see no reason for them to lie. And I haven't even read LA Confidential which I understand has plenty more in it. Plus just other non-drug related stuff that shows to me what kind of a person he is makes me believe him even less.

Of course I don't know if he's actually cheated. Neither do you, or most anyone else other than him and others who might have helped him if he did. I just know based on what I have seen and read over the years the circumstancial evidence is quite overwhelming, and ain't buying it for a second. Just my opinion. You and anyone else are free to disagree.

Parvel Padronos tested pos but beat it on a mishandling issue.

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Kurt Luoni
US Sales Manager
Orca Wetsuits