From the athlete guide, page 15.

So I saw at least 2 people with wetsuits on and 5 people with swim shorts from xterra and Roka over the swim skin(looked real funny). I did ask and a guy next to me mentioned the over 70 thing. Got to say though while people look young in Kona , some of the people didn’t seem over 70. I will say the wet suit people looked quite old( one looked kind of like the 86yr old competing). Anyone feel like the water got more choppy for the later waves( those guys needed the buoyancy)?!

Thanks.....us old guys get all the breaks :0)

Well I agree with you (and that coach you alluded to) about the buoy and paddle use, but those "magic pants" show up and some swimmers get more benefit than you might imagine, so I'm with "casual observer" on that one.

I want to respect the poster's apparent preference to remain anonymous, thus the need for being a bit vague while at least communicating enough so you know the level swimmer you're debating. You mentioned 50 flat above, yup...close enough for govt. work anyway. Not Kona and could have been wetsuit legal, I don't know, on a course not likely to have been short and with negligible if any current assist.

No problem, I'm not trying to out anyone that doesnt want to be. For me at least, the roka shorts are about the same as my buoy only(eney buoy of course), and it seems like they have just about the same floatation. I use them rarely, when I want to be a bit higher and still be able to kick. I suppose that those folks that get 20 to 30 seconds a 100 out of a wetsuit are the ones who really rock those shorts. They actually feel about the same when I put on one of those super racing jammer suits, take one less stroke a lap, and about a second faster per 100.

But back to my old adage, why the hell do I care? Just slot in where you are supposed to, and it is all good. You can even take 2 seconds and jump on my feet, just dont touch them!!

The attitude in your follow up message is really unnecessary. Apparently these were fished from the toilets in the men’s tent. Buoy shorts under a tri suit are pretty obvious when you watch athletes funnel through a bottleneck like the stairs down to digme. They are also pretty obvious when worn under a swim skin if you’re watching person by person walk through the showers.

Sorry for not being as shocked as you are that people are doing this?

Actually 1 sub 54 to my credit. What can I say I have big hands;)

I think we both have the same goal. To have the most fair race for everybody.

We both want to catch cheaters. But we also don't want to insinuate that people are cheating when evidence doesn't exist, or suggest that widespread cheating exists just because there are a few bad apples.

Any evidence that I receive suggesting cheating or rule violations is followed up on.

Sincerely,

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Jimmy
http://www.Riccitello.com

That's hot.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Monty,
Thanks!

Yeah (mac), he has his pro card bc he can ride and run w the best of them! I think he just ran 520s for a half. So dont be shocked by his "pro card" he has earned it and he treats it w respect. Hence his efforts to improve the swim.
And to add to Montys math here, I was going pretty good for 300 meters or so off the start that day, as there was a very fast open water guy who I had done the 100x 100s with... I lost his feet about 100yds in or so... then tried like hell to hang in no-mans-land before shutting down the tempo. But I was shocked how quickly he (and a couple others) were on my feet. Occasionally throughout the 3miles I would put in some digs to get through some weeds or around a buoy (not the eney buoy Monty, but I do have one! And I love it... she sent me one. Great woman) .. but he was still there.
And yes he was a bit of a mess post swim from his effort, which speaks to Montys point. Anyways, it was an eye opener.
I happen to have another buddy, amazing runner, older though, who I swim with a lot. He swims in my lane, 110/100 type pace stuff... he is ALWAYS in floaty pants and paddles and does ZERO flip turns. Ive stated my ironman swim times, he is about on ave 20min slower than me in an Ironman swim.
daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

If the individual in the 50+ wave was over 70, then he was correct. Wetsuits or lava shorts are allowed in Kona for participants 70 or over (see rule below taken from 2019 Athlete Guide p. 15). That doesn't explain lava pants in the toilet though because it would be a lot easier to change out of them in the tent and leave them in your T1 bag.

"Wetsuits are not allowed for professional competitors or age group competitors under the age of 70. Athletes aged 70 and older are allowed to use wetsuits, which must be 5mm thick or less. If an athlete aged 70 or older elects to use a wetsuit, the athlete will not be eligible for an age group award. They will however, be an “official” finisher."

In the context of thousands of competitors you'll always* be able to brush off cheating as "a few bad apples" if you so choose. Look, if you don't like the language I used that's fine...perhaps we just have different definitions of what prevalent is? Given your role I'd expect that - but here we are, replying to one another on a thread where you have evidence that SOMEONE cheated and verbal accounts of it happening again/repeatedly about language instead of solutions.

*IM Texas 2017 bike was an unfortunate outlier

I also have a sub 54 to my credit * so that makes me a fish, right?


* Chattanooga 2017

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I can sympathize with Jimmy here: this thread was started with the OP describing a claim made by a person who was reporting on a statement they heard, and pasting an unattributed and questionable claim that a person had found five pairs of sim shorts in a portapotty at the 2019 IMWC. And then a separate post, evidence is presented as a picture of someone holding a pair of sim shorts from the 2017 IMWC.

Hi Jimmy,
I know the context here is Kona but since I figure the Honu 70.3 is a training ground for many volunteers ad local staff, I would suggest that perhaps more training to swim staff and volunteers around rules may help this situation at Kona itself. When I was there this year, I noticed more than a few people wearing calf sleeves, I approached someone who was clearly staff and not a volunteer and mentioned it and she snapped back to me "Its not my job" so I let it go hoping that something this obvious would get noticed and dealt with.

It wasn't. Bib 1080 is one example of many that are wearing calf sleeves, a clear and obvious violation to the rules and yet this person remains in official results. How can people wearing sim shorts under a swim skin get caught and dealt with when blatant rule breaking is allowed?

My suggestion is more training to staff or volunteers at the swim start or even just ONE person who goes around and looks at everyone while they hang out, getting ready to start to look for these kinds of violations. Granted, I don't bet Kona racers are blatantly using calf sleeves but again, this is obvious while the sim shorts are a bit more discreet (though still obvious to someone looking for them).

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

To make it clear the facebook post I posted was from an athlete who participated in this year's Ironman World Championships who observed a number of floaty pants in the porta potty(you can either believe him or not) and then another person who was volunteering in 2017 witnessed the exact same thing and posted a picture of some floaty pants they pulled from the porta potty. Again, you can believe him or not.

Personally I believe that there are people who participate in Ironman World Championships who cheat whether it be on the swim, bike (obvious drafting) and using drugs. It's human nature unfortunately. Regarding the floaty pants there are easy solutions to make sure that it does not happen in the future - each and every individual can be checked before they are released from the swim corrals now that there are separate waves and anyone who wants to use a porty potty after the swim needs to take their swimskin off before they enter. It isn't rocket science.

Damn, I've never even heard of "calf sleeves". I gather these are made of neoprene???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Wait... Pink? Same calf sleeves people wear for running even as it doesn't provide the benefits they think it does (i wear them in wetsuit legal swims for the bike aerodynamics)

Not neoprene, just compression. Probably doesn't provide any measurable benefit. But it is against the rules.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Ah, compression sleeves. That makes zero sense for swimming but then again prob these people have not done very much swimming. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

You can definitely get calf sleeves (and arm sleeves) made of wetsuit neoprene. Intended use is for SwimRun events, as an alternative or in addition to, a pull-buoy which is allowed under SwimRun rules. Some folks will even wear them under compression socks to make sure they stay in place.

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Not neoprene, just compression.//

Well compression is the number one advantage to swim skins, material being 2nd. Granted getting your chest and belly compressed are the biggest advantages, but that is why the full swim skin suits were banned in the first place, too much advantage. FINA wanted to get to a more level playing field, stop the suit wars before there were all wearing 5mm wetsuits in the pool, and give all its customers a break in costs, ones that would have been essential if you wanted to be competitive. And not sure if this was also in their calculations, but it is kind of nice to be able to compare somewhat to the previous generation. More than that, well then there are just too many things to consider.

+1

And if it’s a non wetsuit swim with the rolling start format from the beach or pier where you line up in a stall and wait for 10 seconds to make the gaps form, you could have a couple of people watch specifically right there and the entire thing can be video'd for easy identification (suspected cheaters can be asked to step aside right there for further check).

Similarly, it should also be possible to have a process like this at the swim exit. Yes, if it’s Kona, it gets hectic with tons of people exiting at about the same time, but staff can at least attempt to call out or simply mark the suspected violation for further review.