There's this element as well, that I don't think gets enough attention. Kona puts certain athletes at a disadvantage relative to other courses - specifically athletes who "run hot" rather than "run efficient." On the Men's side the obvious athletes who suffer are Sanders and Long. Lang is the obvious beneficiary, and Frodo would win anywhere.

Better to rotate it so that its fair and that the true champions have a chance to shine (e.g. imagine Frodo winning his 4th and 5th on two other courses).

I know that I am drifing off into LaLa Land fantasy here... but imagine IM, Challenge and PTO creating a unified 140.6 world championship. Roth would be an mouth watering propect, and nod towards the success of German Triathletes

Here’s an idea. Rotate the WC around the continental Championship courses and make Kona the North America Championship course. So excluding the 2 polar continents that would be 5 WC courses so Kona every 5 years is the WC and then “just” the North American championship the rest. It’d still sell out in no time and still attract a top pro field.

I suppose I would have to concede begrudgingly that whilst Bolton is the home of Ironman, Lanzarote would be an ideal course

Bring it to Cork and see what true community support will look like. Wales and Ireland would be absolutely brilliant from a support and beauty perspective.

Unfortunately if it does rotate, Frankfurt will likely be one of the first European stops.

The problem with rotating existing events is you need races for qualifying which makes it harder for locals to qualify the year the champs are in town. Even if you have the champs Saturday and a regular local race Sunday, it doesn't solve that. Plus then people would be battling to do a race where anyone can do the other 4 years just by turning up.

You kind of need a race that's not a race but everyone would want to do. Dramatic or fast course, holiday type destination, ....like death valley for example

Wales is a fantastic race. tough at 360 degrees: bike profile, wind, rain and cold temperature. Lets say, it doesnt look nice a WC with such weather (for TV).
This is why Lanzarote is better suited

So I think the simplest way to look at it is this, when most triathletes talk about getting a qualifying slot at any IM race do they say "I hope I qualify for the World Championship", or do they say "I hope I qualify for Kona"? I think there is a considerable percentage of the field that is there because it's Kona, not a World Championship. I'm not sure how many of those people are represented here on Slowtwitch, but I think that's beside the point. The fact of the matter is that a considerable amount of the field in Kona doesn't care that it's a World Championship, they are there for Kona.

That brings me to ianmo80's comment which I think is headed in the right direction. What if IM said screw the World Championship model, we're going to the triathlon majors model? Kona is now one of the majors. Nice is now another. Maybe Western Australia or Melbourne is a third. You have to qualify for these and they make the pro prize purses large enough to really attract top talent. Screw it, throw in a bonus for winning multiple majors and a big payday if you get the calendar grand slam. That keeps Kona "Kona" every year, gives 2-3 other big "destination" races in other locations, makes long distance triathlon more worth following year round, and probably (unfortunately) makes Ironman more money.

I know there are probably about 1,000,000 things wrong with this idea, but it seems like the spirit of this post should be throw your crazy idea out there and discuss. IM is gonna do what IM's gonna do and I would be shocked if they are taking their cues from this or any other ST thread, lol.

I recall Torbjorn Sindballe making this point very well on a CompetitorRadio podcast some years ago before he retired. He'd already won the ITU version that nobody cares about (sorry ITU) and was doing all sorts of experiments on heat dissipation and pacing etc. His conclusion (from memory) was to go harder on the bike where the air cooling is more effective knowing he could dissipate heat at the pace that would leave him running. Oh, and he wore gloves to put ice in and generally dressed like he was doing the Marathon des Sables. I think he got 3rd one year ... he might have won had it been at Bolton.

Moving from Kona, IMWC qualification will become a lot more like 70.3 WC qualification where at the end of slot allocation, the announcer says “we still have slots left, if anyone wants to go the the WC, come to the stage” and the 54th person in the AG gets their qualification slot, along with the immediate IG change that they are a world championship qualifier.

As a business decision, it makes sense and WTC won’t have any issues filling the field, even for a 2 day race, even if it is full of 54th place finishers. In the end it’s a hobby for 99.9%, even for the self proclaimed age group elitists. I can’t imagine WTC cares what the age group field looks like as long as it is full.

As a Kona resident and qualifier it is bittersweet. It is great to have the race here; it is not great to have 2400 type A athletes arrive for two weeks and think the sole function of the town and island is to support them while they disobey traffic laws, litter, speed, curse, and congest the town, with little to no respect for the local population.

Yeah I didn't really think that through. To be honest I was just teasing the Americans who "own" Ironman racing but haven't troubled the engravers in quite a while (and yes, I'm conscious that Murray aside, Wimbledon hasn't really been a happy hunting ground for British players).

Splitting the events would be silly. Maybe alternate M/F. Dunno, it would be quite nice for the winner to be able to race a WC at home with Bib no.1.

More seriously, this is an opportunity for Ironman to stop being messed about. Effectively you put out an RFP that says "Wanted : host town for event. We'll fill your hotels with affluent well-behaved hungry people in shoulder season when occupancy would otherwise be patchy - all we ask is closed roads for 2 days, a warm welcome and no last-minute grief because a cruise ship needs the pier and you don't really like or respect us".

I can think of a number of great places I've raced that could work (Cork, Korea, Lanzarote, S.Australia)

I appreciate I just posted describing IM customers as "well-behaved". I've never seen that side of it (I was always very respectful there) but - that said - Kailua itself doesn't feel like it has a year-round community. Presumably that's because the locals make themselves scarce during race week? Has it got worse over time? i.e. the more the locals retreat, the less visitors act like they're in someone else's home and so the locals retreat even more and the visitors start treating the place like they would a package holiday tourist trap etc?

IM have to take some responsibility for this. It's not difficult to make the rules of the road clear at point of KQ and make an example of someone - i.e. pre-DQ them if caught behaving like a knobhead (to the extent you can identify them). If it isn't sorted you end up with tacks on the bike course (I was on the wrong end of that at Singapore one year - luckily I had two spare tubes - both tyres flatted)

The M dot races and Kona specifically are just "pretending"

You can race way better courses without large drafting packs but people chose to ride in groups because they want to brag about having done an ironman rather than actually having done one

Kona suits them perfectly: exclusive, expensive, far away, "historic", ... the ideal conditions for IMstagramers.

Sorry to be so harsh. I've raced several iron distance triathlons but would never enter a race with so much drafting or so f***ing expensive. I personally don't have the need to brag about it.

And this is the core of the problem. Kona doesn't need the WC status. The pro's would most likely appreciate rotating locations so they can have more opportunities (sponsors). I just that the agers can't let it go: They need the symbol status.

And still they lie to themselves. The World Championship is just for the pro. For the agers is just an above-the-average race for the accommodated triathletes that can ride well in a pack and have the means to travel to Kona. Don't fool yourselves, please!!

However, in the end it won't matter. In a few years PTO will buy IM for pennies and will make the WC rotating

Remember IM (the brand) is about the agers (the more the better) whereas PTO is about the pros.

If Moritz really wanted to buy Ironman, he could have done so (Just invest 1BB of his 7.2BB). The offer was never real. Ironman is a mature brand and he's a venture capitalist, that's not what he does.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

ain't gonna happen. there will be an interruption, or a set of interruptions, until the backlog is sorted ... but Kona is the goose that lays the golden eggs, and until that legitimately runs out, it isn't going anywhere.

People turn themselves inside out to get a chance to even qualify for this experience, and there's so many aligned interests, organizations, and stakeholders that have bought in, that even choosing to stepp aside for every second year would be irrational. To boot, I don't get a sense that WTC makes bold and courageous business moves, so I imagine it will stay on the BI until there is a permanent obstacle preventing it to go on. In the meantime, there might be tweaks, minor tinkering with the formula, or other adjustments, but considering how much across IM and age group triathlon is driven by a Kona WC, it's staying.

I think the right thing to do is respect whatever town/country/culture you travel to, but it really does not matter what world event a town is hosting , when people come from all over the world and overrun the place the local population kind of has to grin and bear (not that they should but this is what happens). Whether it is an Olympics, a formula1 stop, a major soccer match, a FIS world cup, a cricket world cup....its all roughly the same scenario.

Host cities just get kinda used by fans (in the case of our sport, the fans are participants, but it is roughly the same for all sports or cultural events). It's not like Kona has a global monopoly of attracting jackasses to their world event. That attribute is roughly attached to every world event.

I used to be a Kona snob. I was lucky enough to do the 1982 and 1986 event in Kona. Back in the day Ironman was Kona. Because of my feeling of being at home in the Islands I actually moved to Hawaii (the state) for almost 25 years. At one time in my life I would have been appalled at the thought of moving the Ironman World Championships out of Kona town. Now not so much.

I think they should keep the Ironman Hawaii event in Kona (as long as they will have us) but the reality of moving the World Championships at the Ironman distance around the globe sounds interesting to me. From the epic fast German course to a Alpine like climbing course, a full glam Dubai event, something way Down Under, or in Africa or Brazil. The possibilities are endless and the courses could all be epic.

By having the Kona course a non annual championship event could open the event to Val Silk's idea that it should be a "regular person" event over time. I am sure it would be hard to get into for a few years, but I think it would work out over the years.

I also wonder about having World Championships over two days having the age group race on Saturday and the pro race on maybe Sunday. Or the other way around. Not too sure if a pros only event would work out that well as it could be like watching paint dry due to lack of visual competitors passing one spot per hour.

Ironman is working its way up to the half century mark, maybe it is time to re think. But under private ownership, that is really not up to us now is it?

Took me 12 years and 20+ starts to finally get to Kona and it wasn't cheap.

Would I have bothered if the world champs were somewhere else? Not a chance! Ironman would have lost a lot of money from me.

Kona is hallowed ground.

Should it be moved for Feb 2022? Maybe. But it would always have an asterix against it and should move straight back at the first opportunity.

I’m disappointed so many people want to enable WTC to separate Kona and the WC.

Too expensive to travel to Kona? Not really if it’s a priority. I know a couple school teachers that qualify and race it every year.

Course rewards certain type of athletes? Name the all time greats that couldn’t get at least one there. (I accept the counterpoint that we had to suffer through Lange winning it twice).

It makes Ironman too US centric? Whatever. I don’t sit around criticizing Roth for being too Euro/German centric.

Course is overrated? I’ve never done a better swim course. Bike course is conducive to drafting, but staggered starts helped. Run is a true test.

I wonder how many people posting here in support of separation plan to race Kona again. Easy to call for separation when your days of qualifying/competing are over.

Don’t mess with a good thing.

If the Worlds is on rotation Eg Kona Cairns Frankfurt penticton. The years it is not in kona run a big 70.3 (in kona not like the current one). That way we protect the integrity of the kona hallowed ground for iron distance but also provide an opportunity for many more people to have a kona experience in a 70.3. Way less impact on locals also. Use same swim location in the bay, bike straight up palani the up and back on queen k, and roads only need to be shut for half a day, then run is the first section of the IM run no need to run up on the queen K.

Problem solved, ask WTC to send me $10,000 consulting fee , I will advise my paypal details :-)

They sure love your money though.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Never done it but knows everything about it. Classic.

"Don't have the need to brag" but downplays others' achievements to claim you did it right "right way". Also a classic move.

The arguments for rotating Kona are borderline nonsense:
1. „70.3 rotates and is doing fine”. Really? Deep roll-down of slots shows AG don’t care about it; Is it big? Yes. Does it make more money? Yes. But it’s by far less desired „product” than Kona. Same for PROs. Start list of 70.3 WC every year shows it’s different league vs Kona. If you move IM WC from Kona it will loose value. Another Disneyland.
2. Other sports don’t keep their WC same location. Yes! Because they don’t have their Kona! You have many great races around the world. But it’s just totaly different level. And being WC they may shine bit more for a day but will not build that legend, epic, legacy. Yet you lose all of it if you move out of Kona. Show me other niche sport (or even some major) that would have WC documentary each year on prime time national TV. I haven’t seen anything close to it for any of the rotating 70.3 WC. Surprised why?
3. Accesibility: Yes, every 4 years it will be more accesible (financially) when hosted on your continent. 3 other years - no difference. But yes, it will be easier to qualify - no one will care so we will have deep roll-downs WC 70.3 style.
4. It will be more fair race for those who sweat a lot (like me). Thanks! And make another category for poor swimmers (like me). It’s unfair we need to compete with those who swam as kids.

But I hope WTC will move out of Kona and the island make a bold move to continue legacy with more decent organisation. And WTC can organize their own WC wherever they want. Top PROs will make their choice. As they do today with 70.3 WC.

This is what happened with Roth. It stopped being an IM and Challenge stepped in. Its still an awesome race and everybody wants it on their race CV.

Move the World Championship around for better venues that support more athletes. Leave Kona as a legacy IM race that is accessible to everyone when they can afford/have time to go and do it. The island will not loose out on the tourism money. Ironman gets WC venue's worthy of the race for bigger participant numbers.

Everyone can still race Kona.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

My two cents is that WTC needs to clear out all these people that have qualified and paid, and, seeing the real possibility that Feb 2022 might not be feasible in Hawaii, they are looking to other venues. Then, hopefully, by Oct 2022 and beyond, were back to Hawaii with a usual field or even smaller than in years past.


Looking at the number of slots each race is getting in 2022, it may be a smaller field and more manageable in a place like Kona.

https://www.ironman.com/im-world-championship-register


Bottom of page shows number of slots at each race. From the looks of it, October 2022 in Kona may be a smaller number? I like it!