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Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! Updated with Gamin file including Martis Camp.
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Been up in Tahoe for a Team Training Camp and got a chance to ride the "hard to access" Martis Creek portion of the bike course yesterday. The climbing in Martis is MORE difficult and MORE STEEP than Brockway Summit. i was grinding at 340 watts in my 39/25 having to get out of the saddle a few times. 11-27 or 28 will be my gearing come race day. We have also rode the maze of additions in truckee north of 80 and there is some climbing there as well.

Now for the swim- we took a clinic today with Jeff Pearson of Boost Swimming http://www.boostswimming.com/index.html. I HIGHLY recommend to take one of these clinics if possible. They set up at the beach where the swim will be with an abrieviated bouy course and work on starting strategies. Here is the issue, the water at the start is ankle deep for 25 yards then goes to knee deep and then back to ankle deep before dropping off after about 100 yards. The work associated with running, porpoising, back to running will send your HR through the roof quickly and you will find yourself hypoxic and flailing in no time. The swim is quite simply going to be a SHIT SHOW with many paniced swimmers before bouy 1 if they are not careful and pace the start properly.

Cheers,

D

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http://www.teamemj.com
Last edited by: dmounts: Jul 29, 13 16:53
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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how much do you weigh

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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ha! yes-all that is true- just came back from Truckee and North Shores area-I'm at 3400ft elev. at home and the elevation still got to me-people need to come prepared for that little pretty as well. Hills and climbs and beautiful water!
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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MarkyV wrote:
how much do you weigh

6'2" 178

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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How did you get into Martis Camp? I will be racing Donner on Sunday and was hoping to drive over and give the hills a shot again. I was going to go into the back way but if I can start the correct way.

YEP, this is why I have 50/34 11/32 gearing. I do not ever get out of my seat on 20% grades. The Donner climb is probably harder than anything on Tahoe so I am ready.

Great inputs on the swim. Seems like just walking the entire way out may be a good option? I assume the bottom is the same where we come back out. Now, since we have to do 2 laps of the swim,
are we going to get this issue 4 times? My goal is to not lose it on the swim. Plus in Sept, good chance the temp will be in the 30's, so I keep thinking about what stuff I need to have to wear.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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dmounts wrote:
Been up in Tahoe for a Team Training Camp and got a chance to ride the "hard to access" Martis Creek portion of the bike course yesterday. The climbing in Martis is MORE difficult and MORE STEEP than Brockway Summit. i was grinding at 340 watts in my 39/25 having to get out of the saddle a few times. 11-27 or 28 will be my gearing come race day. We have also rode the maze of additions in truckee north of 80 and there is some climbing there as well.

Now for the swim- we took a clinic today with Jeff Pearson of Boost Swimming http://www.boostswimming.com/index.html. I HIGHLY recommend to take one of these clinics if possible. They set up at the beach where the swim will be with an abrieviated bouy course and work on starting strategies. Here is the issue, the water at the start is ankle deep for 25 yards then goes to knee deep and then back to ankle deep before dropping off after about 100 yards. The work associated with running, porpoising, back to running will send your HR through the roof quickly and you will find yourself hypoxic and flailing in no time. The swim is quite simply going to be a SHIT SHOW with many paniced swimmers before bouy 1 if they are not careful and pace the start properly.

Cheers,

D

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
How did you get into Martis Camp? I will be racing Donner on Sunday and was hoping to drive over and give the hills a shot again. I was going to go into the back way but if I can start the correct way.

YEP, this is why I have 50/34 11/32 gearing. I do not ever get out of my seat on 20% grades. The Donner climb is probably harder than anything on Tahoe so I am ready.

Great inputs on the swim. Seems like just walking the entire way out may be a good option? I assume the bottom is the same where we come back out. Now, since we have to do 2 laps of the swim,
are we going to get this issue 4 times? My goal is to not lose it on the swim. Plus in Sept, good chance the temp will be in the 30's, so I keep thinking about what stuff I need to have to wear.

.

Got in with a homeowner who is also racing- this is the only way i've heard of which is ridiculous since in my opinion this is the toughest climbing on the course. As far as the start goes, it would be much better if they allowed a waist deep start. There would be no issue getting 1500+ corralled in this area. If it remains a beach start there WILL be issues! As of now, there is a pier which the start will be west of and you will go out turning left around buoys in a rectangle and exiting east of the pier. The air temp will probably be in the upper 30's but water should be nice,mid 60's, unless we have weather. BTW- weather today was incredible and the lake was glass! This course is as gorgeous as it is difficult. I just hope the DNF rate isn't too high !

D

Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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Remember that the lake level will drop too come September, especially if it stay this hot up there. Could end up just being a 100 yd sandy run...
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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Ha, ha. I'm screwed! My longest bike at this point was a 3-hour trainer ride. I'm going to visit family from Aug. 20-25th (no cycling), and going to Brazil for a commentating gig from Sept. 2-9th (no cycling). I should be quite screwed on the bike. I'm predicting my slowest IM time ever! Starting to think about the 17-hour cutoff!

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [renolaw] [ In reply to ]
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renolaw wrote:
Remember that the lake level will drop too come September, especially if it stay this hot up there. Could end up just being a 100 yd sandy run...

Ya, if it dropped about 1 foot that would help a lot....

D

Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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With the rest of the course, outside of the two big hills, being pretty fast do you think times will average out? Kings Beach all the the way through to Truckee seems flat and fast.
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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I had heard about a golf tournament this weekend but have not heard back if this might mean we could get it.

Interesting you are the first person to say the Martis section is tougher than Brockway. Looking at the profiles, it sure looks at best the same. I just think folks have no idea what it is going to be like hitting
all those hills like 80 miles into the race for the second time. I clearly believe that this race maybe more than others will really be determined on the second half of the marathon. At that point, what
folks have done in the swim, and how they rode the bike will really show. I still plan to just take everything before this point as a normal training ride. Since I have no chance for a KQ, I want
to try and be strong for the last 10K of the run. I could care less about the time.

I hope to go in the back way for Martis on Sunday afternoon. Would then like to ride for there to the top of Brockway. If successful, will post how my 34/32 feels since last time I went up with a 34/28.

It would be great if they start the swim waist deep Will write the RD and suggest and then try to talk with him Sunday. But since it is a 2 lap swim, you still would be stuck dealing with the depth 3 times?

Here is a link about water level. Had not thought about it might drop.

http://www.laketahoenews.net/...-to-start-declining/

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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By the way, would be great if you could make some of these comment on the LT FB group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/327816963960116/

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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This data implies it does not usually drop a foot during the summer.

http://tahoe.uslakes.info/Level.asp


.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Last edited by: h2ofun: Jul 27, 13 5:45
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [Keithovi] [ In reply to ]
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Keithovi wrote:
With the rest of the course, outside of the two big hills, being pretty fast do you think times will average out? Kings Beach all the the way through to Truckee seems flat and fast.

Yes but NO WAY it evens out.. I would etimate an additional 45-60 minutes over the additional course. The swim WILL take people out from the start. We have a lot of very accomplished swimmers on our team and we can usually swim 4-5k swim workout and not even fel that tired. We swam 4,400 yards at the IM Tahoe Clnic and I was deplented. No hero's on this swim!!! I highly recommend to keep it in control for the first 500 yards or so and settle into your pace. I'm never worried about burning matches on the swim but this swim will be different. Also worth mentioning- we had PERFECT weather for our swim clinic and if there is any chop or swell it will only make it that much more difficult. The swim is beautiful and you ill be able to see the bottom the entire time so no need to get freaked out but please be aware that this will be probably your most difficult, taxing IM swim ever... Swim safety will be TOP notch. We had a chance to volunteer for swim safety at the Donner Lake Sprint Saturday and met Dan- forget last name but he is in charge of the water safety crew at IMLT and is a complete pro and very serious, as he should be, about water safety and getting everyone out safely.



D

Team Every Man Jack

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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Met some of your other team mates at Donner today. One of your teammates killed the race and kicked butt in the half IM.

Talked to the assistant RD for IMLT at the race. He said as far as he knows, the Martis camp stuff is a done deal. He expects the rock to be removed from the race. But the best news is about the swim. He thinks they are going to start the swim as a deep start, and do the 2 lap swim with a buoy out in the lake, so no having to get out and run across the beach. YEA!!!!

I tested some swimming at altitude at Donner today. For me, starting out slow, and basically breathing 1-1 90% of the race allowed me to never had an issue. But .92 is not 2.4 But I will use the same approach, just pace, breath and not worry
about the time.

I totally agree that the flats do not come close to making up for the hills.

8 weeks, and I will hopefully be out on the run at IMLT.

Another post I made.


Okay, just got back from doing the Donner Olympic distance tri. All the same altitude and hill stuff as IMLT will be. Lots of folks were there doing the race, including the Half IM, who are doing IMLT. Was just too tired to drive over to Brockway. So, my take aways from swimming at Altitude, 68 degrees. I started out real slow. Stayed away from folks. What I found is rather than starting the swim with 1-1 breathing, I stayed with it 90% of the race. Never lost it. Had a good swim. Going up the Donner hill, 3.5 miles, steepest about 7%, I found I was using my 28 a lot pushing around 100 rpm. Once in a while I would get into the 32 to keep the rpm's up. I was going by lots of folks who were mushing away, or standing up. Sure showed up during the runs times that the spinning saved my legs. With the 8-10% stuff at IMLT, I expect I will be using my 32 a lot.


,

,

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Met some of your other team mates at Donner today. One of your teammates killed the race and kicked butt in the half IM.

Talked to the assistant RD for IMLT at the race. He said as far as he knows, the Martis camp stuff is a done deal. He expects the rock to be removed from the race. But the best news is about the swim. He thinks they are going to start the swim as a deep start, and do the 2 lap swim with a buoy out in the lake, so no having to get out and run across the beach. YEA!!!!


I tested some swimming at altitude at Donner today. For me, starting out slow, and basically breathing 1-1 90% of the race allowed me to never had an issue. But .92 is not 2.4 But I will use the same approach, just pace, breath and not worry
about the time.

I totally agree that the flats do not come close to making up for the hills.

8 weeks, and I will hopefully be out on the run at IMLT.

Another post I made.


Okay, just got back from doing the Donner Olympic distance tri. All the same altitude and hill stuff as IMLT will be. Lots of folks were there doing the race, including the Half IM, who are doing IMLT. Was just too tired to drive over to Brockway. So, my take aways from swimming at Altitude, 68 degrees. I started out real slow. Stayed away from folks. What I found is rather than starting the swim with 1-1 breathing, I stayed with it 90% of the race. Never lost it. Had a good swim. Going up the Donner hill, 3.5 miles, steepest about 7%, I found I was using my 28 a lot pushing around 100 rpm. Once in a while I would get into the 32 to keep the rpm's up. I was going by lots of folks who were mushing away, or standing up. Sure showed up during the runs times that the spinning saved my legs. With the 8-10% stuff at IMLT, I expect I will be using my 32 a lot.


,That would be OUTSTANDING news about the swim!!!! We had a few Team EMJ guys there today. I ended up staying on the West Shore to hang with the family- they were getting sick of my 6am departures all week during a family vacation.... Ritch Viola won the HIM today by about 20 minutes I believe.. :) We have a ton of SUPER strong guys racing IMLT and I can't wait; It's going to be a blast!!!

D

,

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http://www.teamemj.com
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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He said as far as he knows, the Martis camp stuff is a done deal. He expects the rock to be removed from the race.

What does this mean. what is a done deal, rock removed

Thans,

barb

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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I feel somewhat obligated to mention that it seems like we see a deluge of these type of doomsayer 'you're going to get eaten alive' type of posts before every new Ironman. In the case of Tremblant, it turned out to not be much of an issue. In the case of St. George, turns out people were quite right.

For Tahoe, I'm not sure where I fall, but having recently returned from racing at altitude (~8k @ June lake half) I tend to believe you. That race was pretty brutal, and nowhere near the climbs like we'll see on Tahoe.

All and all I think I'm pretty boned on this race. Have been struggling with a chronic injury all season and I think I'm only at about 60% of what I was at this time last year, about to pony up to a much tougher course than last year (Tremblant). Looks like I'm going to have plenty of time to 'enjoy' the scenery in Tahoe ;)
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [BarbBikeTechie] [ In reply to ]
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So many opinions out there about exactly how the race is going to come off. I guess bottom line is we will all really know on the 22nd.
But, at least talking with the assistant RD yesterday, he told the the rock in the bike path would be removed for race day,
the martis camp area is okay for race day, and we will do a deep water start for the swim to avoid the long distance of super shallow water with
a bouy in the water to go around for the second lap.

BUT, this does not mean I heard him correctly, or things might change.

.

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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Are there any other IM courses at such a high elevation (6,000+ feet)? I'm guessing the elevation will brutally decimate a lot of racers, though perhaps not folks in the top 10-20% of the field.

I've been riding, running, and swimming in Tahoe every summer the past 20 years (my wife's family has a place near Zephyr Cove). I wouldn't even consider doing an ironman distance race up there. But I'm a middle of the pack guy, not an elite machine like a lot off folks on ST...
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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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I raced Donner Olympic at altitude and hills yesterday for like the tenth time.

I think if folks do not train correctly, do not have the correct gearing on their bikes, do not know how to swim at altitude, do not know how to pace,
and do not have a good nutrition plan down, yep, it will be a VERY tough day.

I had no issues yesterday. But I breathed a lot on the swim, spun like crazy in the hills, and was able to have a decent run.

Now, this is a BIG difference than an IM. I now need to figure out how to change my focus from speed to endurance in 8 weeks. Shall be fun
to see what happens.

.

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- NO JOKE! [BarbBikeTechie] [ In reply to ]
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BarbBikeTechie wrote:
He said as far as he knows, the Martis camp stuff is a done deal. He expects the rock to be removed from the race.

What does this mean. what is a done deal, rock removed

Thans,

barb

There is a huge rock in the middle of the bike path in Truckee used as a natural divider- the part of the course that is North of I-80. We assumed this would be removed as it would be waaaay too dangerous on race day..

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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do you have a garmin / strava file of your workout? what grade are the "steep climbs"

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Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe- BE WARNED! [elburrito99] [ In reply to ]
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elburrito99 wrote:
Are there any other IM courses at such a high elevation (6,000+ feet)? I'm guessing the elevation will brutally decimate a lot of racers, though perhaps not folks in the top 10-20% of the field.

No, I'm pretty sure Tahoe will be the highest starting elevation of any WTC Ironman in the world. Boulder will probably be second at ~5k. Lots of other courses like France that will have more climb, and probably tougher courses all around like Lanzarote, but none that start higher than Tahoe.

It is worth mentioning that while 6k is certainly high for an Ironman, it's decidedly not high in terms of what we generally consider high altitude, the type of altitudes where people get altitude sickness just from being there. There are worlds of difference between 6k and when you start to approach or crack 10k and up. Even a huge difference between 6 and 8k.

Of course, there is a difference though between how a generally 'low-high altitude' of 6k may affect you say if you are hanging out at the lodge, doing some skiing versus going out for a 10-17 hour workout.

The biggest problem I experienced at altitude was the swim, and how drained it left me at the start of the bike. My HR was so elevated coming out of the water that it took me orders of magnitude longer to settle into my bike than at sea level. Once I got going on the bike, I felt decent enough. Definitely less power on the climbs though. Running at 8k I actually didn't feel all that bad. I really think the worst effects of altitude manifest towards the upper end of your zones, there is an effect, but less of one at the easy paces we target in IM.

The altitude is going to make it a tough day out there, but personally I got bigger fish to fry. I'm more worried about the fact that I haven't been able to run since May and the race is in < 2 months.
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