Critical thinking isn't your strong suit, is it?

https://m.facebook.com/...72910815719&_rdr

As far as Kona goes, my opinion is that he will never fulfill his long course potential there because he suffers much more than others in the heat. Same story at Tremblant last year, aside from the flat.

I am not a fan of his in particular -- I am not Canadian or anything -- but as an observer of the sport I consider him mostly without peer on the bike (except for Starky).

So what changed? He comes out of the water further back than he did yesterday in most of his races, he does take chances, and he wins. Somehow, under some magical spell of fitness from the others, in the same scenario, he finishes 9th. How anyone can defend what we saw yesterday, Sanders fan or not, is beyond me.

See the link I just posted. Lots of pros sitting up, freewheeling, soft pedaling. Those look like some guys taking chances to you?

Are you trying to say that the guys who rode at a legal draft distance even if they had to sit up were somehow cheating? Or that Sanders, the uber biker, couldn't bridge the gap and get up to the legal line of riders in front of him? Sitting there didn't prove to be a wise move. Maybe next time he will spend some of his watts to get up with the front riders.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

so other than insulting him you don't even address his points.

Classy.

Your notion that the guy made some sort of tactical error by not trying to close the gap is absurd...the guy rode as hard as he possibly could. 364 normalized watts or 92 percent of his functional threshold for more than two hours.

If you don't have serious questions for the pro men after watching that video then I don't know what to tell you.

The only reason Kienle bridged up is that he got there while Josh Amberger had the moto. Once Kienle and Drietz had the motorcade, then suddenly the front is going at Kienle-Drietz pace with a bit of "each other assist" and "moto assist". Those guys rode legit. The other guys got sucked in behind them. Lionel had no chance at this point to bridge. As an uberbiker you have to bridge before another Uberbiker takes the lead. Once your peer strong biker takes the lead the game is over. Lionel needs to figure out how to bridge to Kienle before Kienle picks up the moto.

I'm sorry I thought the point was so bad that the problem I had with it was obvious...the guy rode as hard as he could. The pro men in that pack received an unfair advantage -- despite significantly less effort on the bike, those guys rode away from him. Crowie getting off the bike with Kienle? Give me a break. To me this all runs contrary to the purpose of "non drafting" triathlon, but maybe I'm just a purist in that regard. If you want 70.3 and 140.6 to be draft semi legal -- which is a perfectly fine thing to want -- then okay, but it's a different race at that point, or I guess I should say at this point.

Dev, regardless how much or how little the leaders got from the camera bikes, I think they get more of a mental draft from riding together, it onus is on Sanders for not getting to the front. It's a race and you have to take a chance sometime. Keinle did, Sanders didn't. All the fans in this thread are acting like poor little Lionel got cheated. If he got cheated, it was only by himself.

Remember Jurgen Zack after the flat in Kona. He ripped it right back to the front. Sure he blew up on the run, but he went down swinging. Not sitting on his stool in his corner.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I think we are in agreement that Kienle did what he needed to. I think though with such a gap after the swim, the option of severely spiking the power for Sanders to close on the group was not quite the same option as Kienle's. The delta was too large to do it quickly. It would have taken him almost double the distance at high power compared to Kienle. He probably thought that the number he was on would be enough. Wrong assumption in a championship.

Keep in mind Kienle had the same disaster at Tremblant 2014 World's as Sanders had yesterday. Kienle was flat and could not close. Sanders actually finished the swim last and bike-ran his way to 4th. But the Tremblant course was still a lot harder by all accounts.

PS. I'm a Kienle fan and kind of pissed that after doing all that work he got nipped in the final 200m.

Yes, but what a finish. Reed looked like he was down and out a few times but he just would not give in. Did you hear his interview at the finish line. He said he was fighting to not end up third!

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

And as exciting as the men's race was, Holly Lawrence, who I never heard of, leading almost wire to wire was just as great!!

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

There's no evidence that Tremnlant is harder. Lionel rode several minutes faster there on slightly less power.

Tremblant is also short at 88km. Sunshine Coast course is accurate.

---

Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

So then they are equivalent. Still no evidence Tremblant is harder, especially given that this was the slowest bike split year ever for the 70.3.

Well, not really. At 43km/h (mid 2:05 split), that's still a 2:45 difference.
But yes, I know what you are saying.

---

Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

Yes and he biked 4 minutes faster at Tremblant on fewer watts.

Yup.
+2:45 to his Tremblant split would still be a 2:05:30 for full 90k, a little more than a minute faster than yesterday.

Interestingly, Pete Jacobs and Clayton Fettell went 2:01:09 and 2:01:07 in 2013. Has the course changed since? Tailwind that day?

---

Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

Good point. She looked great out front all day in the skin suit.

Scott

Course changed. Old one was pretty pancake flat.

I was only half watching the coverage yesterday. I use power to train but mostly let trainerroad do the heavy lifting for me in that respect. I asked up thread, and am curious. Would a better strategy have been to push 400-450 watts for an extended period at the beginning of the bike to bridge, then sit mid pack for the rest of the bike or at least the most of the rest? Presumably your legs would recover? Or would that be too much damage?

---

Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Yes. He made a tactical error in that he should have just hammered and hammered until he bridged up. The problem is that Kienle was now pulling the train along with some moto help most likely and that is a serious challenge to overcome. The other point is that historically Sanders has not liked to sit in once he takes the lead pack, which I commend him for. You could argue that 9th is the same as 30th so why not try. But I think he is still new to this and learning.

In the end, everyone needs to post power files and be done with it.

If you look at old strava rides, the course was just motorway.

I don't think Kienle races with a power meter, so that's probably not going to happen.

That video shows nothing with the pro race other than the exact same dynamic that exists in every championship race. Somehow Kienle bridged the gap, and Sanders didn't. No matter how many watts Sanders pushed out, he had a relatively weak bike performance compared to some of his other races.

People have been talking about why his poor swim performances will hurt him in championship races for a long time. This race was the perfect example of those dynamics in action. He suffers from the same problem as other great bike/runners have throughout the history of the sport. He's not going to be able to win the championship races by targeting a specific wattage and just sticking to it no matter the situation. He needs to take risks on the bike.