Great!

Please share the magic workouts

thanks

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

Who knew?

All kidding aside, what you are experiencing is one of the fundemental basics of exercise physiology - overload the muscles above and beyond your "normal" effort and you will get stronger, faster and more importantly more efficient at sub maximal efforts.

It goes against the grain for the all-LSD-all-the-time types, but it really is a basic of exercise physiology.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

It's amazing what consistency and hard work can accomplish, isn't it? ;-)



Of course there are those that are always looking for the magical component...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

whoa. did you check your hear rate monitor during this little "trip?" i bet you exceeded your maximum aerobic hr and therefore is unacceptable during the month of march. mark allen would not be happy.

that ones for you sac.

Well, just got back from the post ride run. I dont really train with an HR (i find in the aero position it doesnt touch my skin, and doesnt read well, am i banned from this site for not training with an HRM?), but my perceived exertion wasnt bad at all, i definately was aerobic, i dont think its possible to keep anaerobic excercise up for 2 hrs

i was just kidding. kind of a private joke between me and smartasscoach.

i think a lot (most?) of the people on this board use a hr monitor but it's certainly not necessary for success in this sport.

you found something that works for you. good on ya.

The question is, why do you need to feel defensive about the length of your long ride? Perhaps because the quantity over quality mindset seems so prevalent?

Congrats on your progress w/ your training!

34,



You know, I'm trying REALLY hard to become an american style internet coach... so please, if you want to share wisecracks with me all the time... you need to start paying! ;-)))

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

The only time I wear a HRM is when I'm trying to make sure I don't go too hard in something like a half ironman or greater distance race. Shorter than that, and perceived exertion works fine for me. When training, I don't use it anymore. I just don't put in the big miles that would dictate that I keep the effort low enough to keep from overtraining...at least, that's my theory. I'm going back to riding hard when I feel like it, and not riding a whole lot otherwise...same for running. I'll let you know if it works for me at the end of the year :-) All I can tell you is my Irondistance training seemed to de-train me, I lost speed and fitness on the run and bike, and even gained some fat while losing muscle...all the time being in a state of hunger. Maybe I did it "wrong", or maybe I'm just much more naturally a sprinter type, or maybe there's some other good reason for my results. Whatever the reasons, I'm going back to my old ways of warming up, going hard, cooling down, then going home. My speed is returning, my body fat is dropping, and my muscle is slowly returning. To each his own, I guess!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

<< Intervals and big ring drills work wonders >>

I agree.

There was a big discussion recently where many very well respected coaches and athletes said in a nutshell that big ring drills are "useless". To which I respectfully beg to differ. (and throw in a PFFFFT! for good measure - haha!)

I am a very time (and therefore distance) constrained guy. At the beginning of last season, I didn't do as much big-ring stuff as I had in years past (along with a lot less overall volume) and it took me a while to round back into form.

At the end of this last season, I did the same thing as you - big ring stuff and intervals on the trainer. I then went out and PR'd my local hill TT and overall loop, and also my road TT course, with *zero* long rides prior.

Naturally you can't overdo that sorta stuff, and listen to your body - your knees in particular, get plenty of recovery, etc. And, I'll certainly hafta get in some long rides prior to my first race, or I'll be in for a looooong day. But, the long rides are gonna be pretty easy, since my power and speed are near, at, or mebbe even above PB levels now.

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float , hammer , and jog

These are absolutely some of the best workouts IMO (intervals/big ring). Just wait till you do them consistently for a year (intervals intensity periodized of course). You'll be a different cyclist.

Arrrrgggggg. For the umpteenth time, "big ring" means nothing. Think power and/or cadence only. It matters not which ring you are in. Only the power you produce and [maybe] the cadence at which you are producing it.

So, revise it to... "these higher power intervals [sometimes done at a low cadence -- just like climbing] are really working."

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

<< So, revise it to... "these higher power intervals [sometimes done at a low cadence -- just like climbing] are really working." >>



OK, ok, point taken - "these high power granny gear 200 rpm intervals are really working!"

Or, if it's s'posed to be just like climbing - "these granny gear 45 rpm intervals that simulate the speed at which I'd probably fall over from lack of gryoscopic effect are really working." ;-)



PS - I think I'd give ya a run for yer 2004 Worst Swimmer Champion title.... the "float" part of my tagline is no gross overstatement. But I am working on not retaining said title for '05.

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float , hammer , and jog

Just out of curiosity, is this the type of stuff on the trainer that you are talking about...

Here is one one my workouts...

Warm-up then -- 3 min 90+ RPM, 2 min building to 110, 1 min all out. 1 - 2 min recovery, Repeat 4 - 8 times. All in big ring at a gear I can reach those RPMs

I usually follow that set with sets of :30 all out/3:0 easy recovery x 3 - 6.

Cool Down..

Being a midwesterner who cannot get out much in the winter and hate long rides on the tarienr this is the type I am focused on...hoping to see results in the bike time this year...

Thanks.

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"We will either find a way, or make one." -- Hannibal, General of the Carthaginian Army

heres what ive been doing, and its been real good:

start around 85 rpm, big ring, and some gear in the rear that you sorta have to work at, do this for 5 min

same rpms, bump up a gear, 5 min

again, same rpms, bump up a gear, again, 5 min, you should be churning a pretty big gear, and this should be real hard.

knock it back to the second gear, same rpms, 5 min.

repeat this cycle 3 times (1 hr), warm up and cool down before this workout.

another i love is big ring up front, 2 min intervals, highish rpms (90-95) start with an easy gear in the back (easier than in the exercise above), every 2 min, bump it up a gear, do this 3 times, then on the next one, back it down one gear, keep this up. Eventually youre turning big gears at a pretty fast rate, and its pretty intense.

Thanks for posting - I like hearing people's different work-out ideas/results. I'm snow bound for 6 months and trainer stuff gets old....I'll try your work-out. None of the below matters but here is what I think....

What you describe sounds more like a threshold work-out with a range of power from below LT (1st gear) to about LT (2nd gear) to above LT (3rd gear) - sounds like you are working fairly hard for an hour. No rest between = not an interval in my opinion. You do vary between 3 gears but it sounds like even the easiest gear you are still working fairly hard (above recovery like a traditional interval work-out). "Big Gear" - I take that to mean lower cadence - lets say about 20+ below TT cadence. For me I consider 60-70 cadence "Big Gear". 85 cadence is still fairly fast - faster than many people TT. Again none of this matters - but what I thought you were describing from your initial post and what you described in the last were quite different - so thanks for describing in more detail. How long to recover from that? My legs would be shelled for 24-48 hrs.

Dave

Ah jeez, another pretender. No chance. If you can swim a decent 100y in a pool, you have no shot at taking the title right now. I'll damned if I'm going to finish up this year still carrying the title, though, so get swimming if you want to avoid it for yourself.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Which is why I love the track ;-)

can you do something else than big gear???
no one told me...I have a small chainring and take pride at keeping it spotless :-)

who said 85rpm in this thread??? we are talking about big gear work, not spinning :-)

Your legs are like two tree trunks it's a wonder how you move around at all.

If you don't wear a monitor for training then how do you know what is "too hard" in a race? HR zones change with fitness and year to year. My bet is that you never tested with a HR monitor and therefore only guessed at what the appropriate zones are for you.

"What you describe sounds more like a threshold work-out with a range of power from below LT (1st gear) to about LT (2nd gear) to above LT (3rd gear) - sounds like you are working fairly hard for an hour."

Yup...and I'd bet that if he had a powermeter, we'd find that is EXACTLY what he's doing. Long threshold intervals...in the 10-40 minute range... 40 minutes total work time, 10-40 minute work intervals, Coggan power level 4...awesome workouts...especially if done consistentlly over the year and if based on tested values...preferably power, but HR will suffice if you don't have access to power.

"Big Gear", on the otherhand means shorter intervals to me...5-8 minutes, low cadence (around 55) and Coggan level 5 (although I might advise a couple of "adaptation" workouts at level 4, same cadence, same interval time...for the less experienced...again, all based on TESTED values...

My problems with the HR monitor, especially in the shorter races, are twofold, and related. First, if I go by the ranges I find are appropriate in training, I am slower in a race. For example, I found when training, I go at about 150-153 for an hour long bike training ride before I begin to slow. In a triathlon with a 40K TT, I can push on up to 160-63 for much of the race without slowing down, and without hurting my run split. My max HR on the bike is 175, on the run, it's 177, I'm 47.

Secondly, I also ride a bit differently than the coaches I've been coached by, in that I vary my effort much more than they suggest, and I don't need a HR monitor alarming giving me an excuse to slow when I'm hurting going hard up a hill. I'm a coaster going down most hills, after gaining sufficient speed, and I push much harder going uphills than a "HR range" would say I should go. I'm heavier than most endurance athletes, and I come from a sprinter genetic pool, and this kind of riding gives me better times.

Case in point: I did a duathlon this AM (in 20-30mph winds), and had the second fastest bike split overall, and second overall. The guy that beat me is reportedly looking for sponsor and plans to go professional this year (in my opinion, he either had a slow training-day race effort today, or he'll have a hard time finding a sponsor!) and is almost exactly half my age.

Bottom line, HR monitors slow me down. Going slower is only good for me when I'm doing a half-iron distance or greater. I've been training/racing long enough I think I can generally tell how hard to push myself based upon the conditions at the time. I also think Powermeters give more useful information than HR monitors.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

HR monitors and powermeters are only good if you do meaningful testing to help you fit them into your training.

HR is notoriously variable even day to day with athletes. Depends on your recovery, stress, training load, etc...so it follows that you might have a hard time correlating the values. Not only that, your example of the higher sustained hr during a 40k compared to training for 1 hr is appropriate...you've already elevated your HR with the swimming (or running if its a duathlon)...you are naturally going to run a higher hr for the same effort. You also have other physiological effects. Of course there is always the fact that, unless pushed hard, athletes are always going to be more willing to go in the red zone during a race...adrenalin, endorphins, etc...its hard to replicate that week in and week out in training...

Frankly...every athlete I've tested using HR has found that they've previously used HR zones that are too low...and in effect...they haven't been running hard enough in training.

You are absolutely correct that powermeters are better indicators of effort than HR monitors...however...the testing bit still applies. You have to have a good reference for setting your own values...and they will change with your fitness...the longer you go between tests (or races, if you use it during the race), the less relevant your training zone values are.