toe-may-toe, toe-mot-toe...hijack, ambush it's all the same & ya better be prepared if the WTC legal eagles decide to come after you. Free speech carries you only so far, especially if you "activate" in & around the event. If you are attempting to confuse the consumer by implying in any way you're involved with the event you might receive that cease & desist notice.

Not sure I can attempt to fathom your logic here. As Coke is the TOP sponsor of the Olympics, & pay around $100M for four years to be such, this creates a monopoly & Pepsi should be able to hijack Coke's sponsorship of the Olympic Games? Companies align themselves with sports properties for a variety of reasons. They pay for that exclusivity. That's why it's called sponsorship.

If you are simply building a better mousetrap, then promoting your product in way that doesn't confuse the consumer about who's the official drink sponsor, that's the capitalist way. Even better, if you scientifically prove your product is better than Ironman's then the market should respond accordingly.

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

What I'm saying is that many companies try to sell us substances that they say they've researched, have all the correct ratio of CHO and proper osmolality, yada, yada, yada - and none of them are as good on the most nutritionally demanding part of the Ironman race as a substance which designed to be biggie sized with a Big Mac and fries....

And yet we trust these companies and what they're selling us, and I stand back and ask, "Why?"

When I first got into this sport, it was "Coke the second half of the run..." Now it's "Coke and only Coke from the first run aid station to the last."...I dunno, maybe we should start it at mile 56 of the bike...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

The more I think of it and after reading a lot of these posts, I'm leaning towards,

"It's not really that important for Infinit to have a physical marketing presence at Kona"

Why?

Because the guys and gals racing Kona on the balance know what they are doing for the race and likely already know about Infinit....the Kona qualifier tends to be a more educated triathlete (ie....not a newbie)

They either know of Infinit, or already have their nutrition plan locked down

There is limited market share to be grabbed by convincing a few more Kona qualifiers to ditch their current fuel of choice and jump to Infint

Where there is a bigger market share to be gained is the other 200,000 athletes doing long distance events worldwide. They need to be educated on why they need to use Infinit. This is going to sell way more Infinit than getting a couple of hundred more in Kona to switch brands

What should Folan/Infinit do (my 2 cents from a guy who is supported by them):

• Be active on boards where triathletes hang out (already does)
• Sponsor some good spokesmen (pro or age grouper) in every major geography who will talk up the product and influence new adopters
• Stress that Infinit:
• replaces gels+bars+salt
• is more transportable than gels+bars+salt
• requires less fiddling on the bike
• is cheaper per calorie and per milligram of sodium than gels+bars+salt
• Advertise in the trade publications...feel free to use the line.... "We're so good we got banned from Kona"...
• Do a whitepaper comparing different aspects of their own and competing products...make is objective and admit where other products might be better while promoting your strengths....no competition bashing
• Be at all those non WTC events where they CAN be at the expo
• Can you become one of those companies that USAT pushes out in their marketing (ex: Rudy Project helmet deal)....that goes out to a ton of folks....same with those Active.com emails
• Let's not forget about all those folks running marathons around the US wearing Fuelbelts and loading themselves down with 5 extra pounds.....something has to go in those Fuelbelts...Folan has to convince them to stuff those Fuelbelts with nutrition before they get smart that they don't want to weigh themselves down with all that weight....this is a much bigger market than triathlon
• Finally I was thinking that a massive market would be hockey, soccer and football players. Especially hockey and soccer...by the tail end of the games, these guys are out of gas....if they fuelled with Infinit rather than Gatorade, all these kids could put back perhaps 500-600 calories over a game vs say 200 with Gatorade...by the end of the game having your entire team better fuelled might be better for 3rd period, or late second half performance....and this market has to be a ton larger than triathlon. Maybe Folan can start with an NHL team like Columbus Blue Jackets....or maybe even do the Ohio State Football team....

Never met snoots but the (wo?)man knows what they are talking about, spot on advice

there is people who would suggest this
and there is people who have done it.
dont forget nutrition is so personal for each of us ;-)

What is Facebook?

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http://www.GetEndorFit.com
Personal Training and Sports Conditioning
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I agree...triathletes probably already know about infinit and overall the group is growing but nowhere as big as the marathon group. I would suspect very few runners know about infinit as an option as opposed to gel for running.

just my 2 cents

I think the high road is the best way to go, although I would rather take the low road and be a jerk to correct what I feel is an injustice.

Send all of you repeat customers a box of individual servings, (just not in our formulations, or we would drink it up), and let us pass it out at our tri meetings or running club meetings. The best source of advertisment is word of mouth. Thats how I found out about you.

Of course, a nice team Infinit kit would be nice!

+1..very sensible recommendations.

I love Infinit. I do think sometimes you are better off letting them sink their own ship. You have the product of choice and that is proof.

On that note, I say a blimp over the course all week and day. Free samples, water bottles, etc all over the expo. Sit outside the local shops.

Crush it!

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Greg C. Moriates
Owner/Coach
GCMendurance.com

I'd like a bit more background about why you were kicked out of the expo. For example: was there a contract? Did you have to pay for an Expo spot? Was this money refunded? If there was a contract, were any provisions of the contract breached?

Yup.

The idea of an 'official' bike isn't far-fetched at all. If you look at motorsport for instance - MotoGP only uses one tire - Bridgestone, Formula One - Bridgestone, World Superbike - Pirelli. Of course the competition are all professionals... but you get the idea.

Why? Because WTC has a vested interest in making the IRONMAN new drink a success. From their POV, they are looking for the new Timex. I certainly understand and respect that. This is not a rant against WTC. I know those guys well, and understand why they are doing what they are doing in our category. They are also aware of what we are being forced to do. WTC and us are cool.

Couple of things.

This entire thing has to be done with good humor. Not everyone is on ST every day and aware of the issues that go on behind the scenes with IM. The biggest % of people that are training and racing their events are just there to have Mike welcome them across the finish line so they can say they are an IM. They really don't care about the politics. If we are too nasty, they will not understand. It will turn them off because we will look like a company that is just waaaaaaaaaaaaaa'ing. :) It's a balance.

I NEVER would be misleading making it appear like we are the official anything. I look at that like stealing and that is not the way we run the company.

All of our market research show one thing, newbies and the AG'ers learn about nutrition FROM THE FAST PEOPLE. That stat is an absolute. That is why you go to Kona. That is why you sponsor fast people.

100% that this is a good thing for us.

We have a very good idea about what we are going to do. HONESTLY, the posts in this thread are unbelievable. There is a wealth of information and fantastic ideas here. I kinda wish Herbert would delete it and print only me a copy. LOL You guys have done a fantastic job worthy of a Masters thesis. Any company can use this thread as a gold mine for ideas.

When we announce this thing I will do it here FIRST. There is a Newsletter coming out next week that you should keep an eye out for. If you are interested, just go to the US website and create an account and you will recieve it. Details will then be shared here. The meeting is Friday to finalize everything, and a half dozen or more ideas posted in this thread will be included.

Mucho respect to you all.

Michael

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

I may be wrong but there is a risk by insisting on "banned from Kona". When I read the title of the post, my first reaction: would Infinit's formula contain illegal substances?
Of course, I was totally wrong but I'm afraid it is now a "natural" reaction when the word "banned" is associated with any nutrition/supplement item.

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

It may have more punch, but it has the potential to backfire...watching a banned movie or listening to a banned musical group is one thing. But if anyone sees the ads and thinks that infinit is actually not allowed at IM races ("banned" like certain speedsuits, or, you know, fins) because it is some sort of unfair advantage, then you're going to prevent people from using it. Unlike Air Jordans, which are still fine for me to wear because I will not ever play in the NBA, I wouldn't want to train with Infinit if it's a product that I might not be able to use at my next IM race because it's banned. I think that "banned" and "nutritional product" are two phrases that athletes don't want to see together.

I'm a huge fan of Michael and Infinit -- I worked the booth with them at IMLOU this year and had a blast talking with the athletes, promoting the product, and also just listening to Michael do his thing -- he knows his product, other products, and sports nutrition inside and out. Whatever plan they come up with, they're going to be fine. It's a superior product and those of us that use it tell our friends about how great it is. I'm excited to hear what they come up with.

  
I saw your reps at the swim practice; and I am a customer of yours, great product, btw.

MotoGP is a different story. Issue of that came to be cost and if you look back, especially to the days of the 500 bikes, you had the top team/riders going through 8 different compounds leading up to the race, where some of the lesser groups would be lucky to get some.

It is one thing when you have Michelin making 8 custom tires for Rossi and others not being able to get anything but off the shelf and another when you have the availability of items readily there.

The issue with a single bike, unlike tires, are bikes do not always fit riders. Now if Trek, Specialized, Orbea want to do custom bikes and change the geometry of their bikes to every rider in terms of length of top tube, etc, then I am all for it. But I do not see that happening.

While there are a lot of adjustments that can be made in seat placement, height, and swaping stems, some bikes fit different than others which is much different than standardizing tires. Now wheels may be a different story

Good point.

And you're right GP is a different story. But with SBK, the other tire companies were pretty lit when Pirelli got the exclusive rights... claiming that Pirelli's quality was below theirs.

Anyway...

Many would argue that what you mention with SBK and Pirelli could very much match what is here.

I liked Pirelli tires in general, but the wear on them for me was half of what I got out of my Pilot Powers or Pilot Race.

No worries - as you can tell by majority of the posts, the IM expos are overrated. Just post up somewhere else in the general vicinity. Wrap a truck or van like the energy drink co's and drive it around. I love INFINITE!

Banned was first used by Michael to start off his post and lacks the punch necessary to get a reaction. The number of views and responses to his thread instantly speaks to the weight that 'BANNED' carries.

Your second thought after 'is this illegal' should be where are you getting this message. If it is from a trade publication, sterile press release or in the official rules of an event or host company I completely agree with you that the terms banned/illegal/unauthorized are all no no's.

If it is a splashy creative, and ad or a bunch of people wearing obviously labeled gear from the manufacturer making the claim that their product is illegal wouldn't you then ask why they would want to promote that fact?

Ad/creative/marketing is about making a connection and motivating people to take action. Look at the response that Felt got with their 'F is the new standard ad', or the reaction to McGlones 'tramp stamp' fizik ad.

I had a boss tell me once that adverteising isn't honest but it better be effective.

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I agree with Tom completely on this. You are selling the idea that your product little guy is fair superior in quality and research than the big guy who made a pretty bottle and filled it with sugar water. They got scared of you and wrote a check to keep you out.

Now run viral videos of protestors outside of Big Chocolate a-la those TRUTH cigarrette ads, fake raids on cyclists and runners using infinit and trying to get them to use big chocolates product and go after the marathon crowd in Boston/Chicago/New York!

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I know the "Jager Girls" were always effective in getting me to buy shots. Maybe the "INFINIT Girls"?

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Damn, that's a cold ass honkey.

That is a customer and one of my employees. He came out just to help for the day. He has lost well over 100lbs already and has completed an IM. Good guy and an even better story.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Without reading through all the posts, which I think are great, this may have already been stated. While my simple vote is to do something outside the expo's and sanctioned areas, I had another side-bar thought on IMLOU and the lack of water on the bike course. The new drink sponsor knows how popular INFINIT is and deliberately ordered less water for the bike course to force people to drink the Powerbar Perform crap that upset my stomach so much. I rode for 30 miles without water for my concentrated INFINIT - and just to hydrate had to rely on the Perform drink. Screwed up my run but didn't stop me from finishing because I'm determined enough to keep pushing.