I don't think we can make a comparison to race gear and race fees. We do spend a lot of money for some of our gear/apparel, but we use it every day. We get to take it home with us for the rest of our lives should we choose to do so. Plus, we have many, many options available to us for the same product. Do we have that with 140.6 races? Not yet. Do people get the same type of return after paying for and completing an Ironman? Perhaps.

You should do Vineman and finish under 9 hours then it will attract more competition

So I'm deluded when I prefer Boulder Sunrise to 5430?

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Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

I'm not learning polo, Alfred.

And if tris continue the way that running races have, WTC will buy up this one too. RnR has basically done that to a lot of outstanding mid-size marathons, and quite frankly ruined them by catering to the non-racers. I've watched the demise of running road races during the past few years, and find it quite sad. Then WTC came along and basically did it to an awful lot of great half IM courses. The monopolistic nature of these companies and their insistence on morphing RACES into EVENTS is an assault on the sport. The sport is RACING, remember?

As a 61 year old woman I can reassure you that it's as difficult to qualify for a World Championship event as it is for a male in the 40 -44 age group but for different reasons.
A younger competitor has more competiton, usually 300-400 and therefore less chance to qualify....agreed.
And there may only be 1-5 in mine. But we compete over the same course, same conditions, same degree of difficulty. For me to turn up without an injury, in good fitness, capable of completing the course takes much more smart training and planning. One example of this is the need for more rest between sessions.
So don't for one moment think it's any easier for us oldies.

Oh Good Forage,
I don't think it is any "easier" as you get older. I meant to imply that if I magically turned into a 61 year old woman tomorrow, that the times that I put out today might allow me to qualify.

OK point taken...and it's good for age ... not a furry animal!!

Hahah. Now that is funny. I am on my 3rd cup of coffee and trying to get 3 kids fed while my wife is out running. My reading comprehension is compromised.

Sorry, unlike Keith Jordan, the runners of this race are not in it for the money, both doing many IMs and other races. Would be a sad day if this great sold out to the WTC machine.

That is not to say that the WTC does not pull a bunch of dirty tricks like trying to pay to stop the race by paying off local officials, trying to organize a competing local race or other nastiness.

This has been more that a few years since you could do this, and WTC is not to blame if you don't like it. This is standard operating procedure for all USAT races, not just WTC.

then sign up and race man, I'm an agressive "i dont do this for fun I do it to beat everyone else" kind of racer so I agree with you on some very small level but hell its a business, thats life.....be grateful anyone bothers to put these events on at all, pay the fee and show up to race...or don't, but quit your ungrateful elitist bitching. How many races have you served as RD on....what are you doing, besides spouting off on ST, to oppose WTC's evil big business tactics?

Holy crap, did you happen to notice that that race is like a 112 mile crit race for christ's sake? 112 miles is 41 laps on the bike course...ugh.

Does anyone have a good link to a website or database that lists all/most of the HIM or Iron distance (non-WTC branded) races in N. America or worldwide? Looking to week out all the local Oly/sprint type races and just have a listing of the long course stuff. I would find that very useful.

I think this a funny analogy, but you got it backwards. Macs aren't better, you just think they are and so you are willing to pay more for them. As a buisness buying thousands of pcs, we went with the open solution PC years ago and got rid of all macs. PC are available from many companies, vs Macs which are proprietary. I'm not paying a premium to get a mac from Apple, when I can buy PCs from any number of vendors that will meet my needs. Competion keeps them cheep and competative.

If everyone stopped buying from wtc there would be more choices and lower prices. I won't ever do a wtc event for the same reason i'll never buy an Apple product of any kind. Why pay for proprietary when somthing is really a commodity market.. WTC apeals to those who need an event vs a race. I don't need or want an event. So while some see them as a blessing to Triathlon, I see them as leach that has sucked the life out of so many good races.

Somebody understands... Finally

Too bad most people want an event. We understand you want a grass roots race with a start, finish and stopwatch. Good thing those are still out there....but the vast majority of people want huge crowds, big finisher medals and bands playing every mile.

Good news is that you can always start your own race...and judging by what is important to you, it should be extremely cheap to produce!

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

I have a major problem with this response. As your magazine is owned by WTC, you have a business interest in their success. Frankly, I dont think you should be responding in this manner, especially because theres nothing "spineless" about his post. Whiney? sure, nothing new there. But maybe his career doesnt afford him the luxury of standing behind his comment with his name.

Honestly, with the way WTC raises race prices on an annual basis, I dont find it hard to believe that $1k MDot races arent far from being the norm.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

I think you missed the part where I said "as a fan of the forum," not "as an employee of WTC" My statement lends zero bias... if anything, it advocates choice.

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Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

Your eyes just turned brown...

I disagree. Attacking someone (regardless of the reason you state) because they say something negative about your company is not the way you should be approaching customer service, especially as a fledgling magazine, and it does not "advocate choice". While I know voting with my wallet doesn't mean much for a periodical these days, where ad revenue far outweigh subscriber payments, I'm no longer considering renewing the magazine subscription I got at Timberman, and will no longer read you magazine. I'm going to advocate for a different choice in triathlon magazine. Still glad you are "man enough" to put your full name with your opinion?

Have a nice day.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

No shit. Talk about a spineless corporate kiss ass! I didn't realize this guy actually works for WTD because I've never read LAVA Magazine, and now I can assure you I won't. I think in will try to direct my business away from any company that advertises there as well. Thanks for pointing this out.

Off hand I'd say that thread creep has taken way afield.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

But maybe his career doesnt afford him the luxury of standing behind his comment with his name.

I guess it comes down to who you trust more - A real person with a real name who we know and we know who he/she is, or some anonymous poster on an internet forum. I may disagree with both people, but the anonymous poster . . . how can you take that person seriously? Even if I don't agree with the, known poster, for some reason I have a naturally higher respect for that individual.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I didn't realize either. His reaction makes sense to me now.

Anyhow.. I know few people think this topic is a dead horse, I haven't seen any other threads about it, so I musn't have been paying attention.
I enjoy this debate/topic.
Personally, after doing IMNZ this year, I will head down a different path - namely the Challenge path.
WTC has been butchering Aussies for a while now. I'm not going to complain about it, because it would achieve nothing. What I am going to do is put my money elsewhere.