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IM Boulder DNF Rate?
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Does anyone have the updated stats on the IM Boulder DNF rate? I imagine the 103 degree heat was a record! It was brutal!

Heather Casey, CSCS, USAT L2
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Peak State Fit] [ In reply to ]
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I think I saw there was a 30% DNF rate, but that includes DNS. I think of athletes who crossed the start line, the DNF rate was like 15% or 17%. I believe it was deemed not to have superceded CdA in 2015 and a few other notable hot ones.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Peak State Fit] [ In reply to ]
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Saw on the FB page from someone who went to awards, where it was announced the DNF rate was 18%.

Also, saw that static air temp was 95, second hottest behind CDA. "Feels like" air temp was 102.

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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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Courtesy of the Obsessed Triathlete site (obstri.com), here are historical numbers for Boulder DNS and DNF. It looks like the bike and run numbers are all DNF, just that the swim includes DNS.

YearList AthletesSwim FinishDNS/Swim DNFBike FinishBike DNFRun FinishRun DNFOverall DNS/DNF20181697142016.3%13316.2%12029.6%29.1%20171339117212.4%11501.8%10796.1%19.4%2016148314522%14092.9%13107%11.6%20152732220019.4%21392.7%20125.9%26.3%20142782227018.4%22152.4%20487.5%26.3%Coeur d'Alene rates were:

YearList AthletesSwim FinishDNS/Swim DNFBike FinishBike DNFRun FinishRun DNFOverall DNS/DNF2017110497411.7%9057%8377.5%24.1%2016134613340.8%12526.1%11498.2%14.6%20152009168915.9%150810.7%132811.9%33.8%20142466210614.5%19815.9%19352.3%21.5%2013231822572.6%21962.7%21153.6%8.7%20122792230617.4%21984.6%21422.5%23.2%20112799234116.3%22583.5%21753.6%22.2%20102709226316.4%21982.8%20954.6%22.6%20092626215118%20962.5%20313.1%22.6%20082372205813.2%20002.8%19403%18.2%20072601219215.7%21342.6%20792.5%20%20062489222410.6%20995.6%19387.6%22.1%20052044175614%17251.7%16544.1%19%20031940157318.9%14885.4%13419.8%30.8%

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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cmd111183 wrote:
I believe it was deemed not to have superceded CdA in 2015 and a few other notable hot ones.

Fwiw there were 1780 for Ironman St George in 2012 and 1001 finishers - it was hot but it wasn't the heat that made it a tough day. The people who got yanked from the water were listed as DNS. There were 5 people to go under 10 hours that day, all 5 were male pros with Ben Hoffman taking the win in 9:07. Meredith Kessler was the first female in 10+ hours. I know everyone likes to tell war stories but Weather Underground has Boulder at 93 with an extremely low dew point and humidity albeit it at altitude. Bottom line from my experience is unlike Louisville, where people planned for it to be oppressive, people at Boulder don't plan the same way and are blindsided by paces that are unrealistic to what they trained for.

Here are the 2012 STG results if anyone is interested.

The following is some Weather Underground data from a few other hot races:

Date Race Temp / Heat Index / Dew Point

2016 Ironman Chattanooga 95.0 / 93.7 / 57
2015 Ironman Coeur D'Alene 102.2 / 100.9 / 55.4
2014 Ironman Louisville 88.0 / 96.5 / 73.9


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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Taugen] [ In reply to ]
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I raced in Boulder on Sunday and there's no doubt it was hot, though I can think of some other IMs I've done that seemed as hot or hotter. IM Austria in 2012 and IM Louisville in 2008 come to mind (and maybe even IM Texas 2016) just from the races I've done. I'd be a bit surprised if Boulder 2018 is in the list of top 10 hottest IMs ever. It was definitely hot, but there also have been a lot of really hot races in Louisville, Wisconsin, Coeur d'Alene and other places over the years.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [David_Tris] [ In reply to ]
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A DNF rate in the teens for a percentage isn't bad at all if it was that hot.

The only example I can give is that AOMM was 103mi and 11k ft, of 1100 starters I see right at 600 results online. Apparently 150 signed up out of the 1100 to stop in Marion. Marion starters didn't get times. So down to 950. It was 91 deg up on the parkway. So, I can see why folks had a hard time. I still don't believe that nearly 40% dnf'd though. Maybe some dns's also. I was shocked to think that many didn't finish.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I love wearing my IMSG 2012 Finisher shirt - that was a tough one to earn!

Thomas Gerlach wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
I believe it was deemed not to have superceded CdA in 2015 and a few other notable hot ones.


Fwiw there were 1780 for Ironman St George in 2012 and 1001 finishers - it was hot but it wasn't the heat that made it a tough day. The people who got yanked from the water were listed as DNS. There were 5 people to go under 10 hours that day, all 5 were male pros with Ben Hoffman taking the win in 9:07. Meredith Kessler was the first female in 10+ hours. I know everyone likes to tell war stories but Weather Underground has Boulder at 93 with an extremely low dew point and humidity albeit it at altitude. Bottom line from my experience is unlike Louisville, where people planned for it to be oppressive, people at Boulder don't plan the same way and are blindsided by paces that are unrealistic to what they trained for.

Here are the 2012 STG results if anyone is interested.

The following is some Weather Underground data from a few other hot races:

Date Race Temp / Heat Index / Dew Point

2016 Ironman Chattanooga 95.0 / 93.7 / 57
2015 Ironman Coeur D'Alene 102.2 / 100.9 / 55.4
2014 Ironman Louisville 88.0 / 96.5 / 73.9
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I can’t

I can’t get the photo to attach but it reads 112 and he said it peaked at 114 before 5pm.
It was taken by a volunteer at the bag/bike pick up. I asked where the thermometer was hanging and he said under an overhang on the high school. In medical the head Doc told me the medical staff on the course measured it at 103 from a light bulb thing they use to understand exactly what’s going on. I am an underestimator always and I don’t know exactly how hot but I can tell you that no shade at altitude with that sun made for an epic brutal hard day. As hard as it was for us athletes it had to be way worse for the volunteers to stand there in that heat all day. I’m sure there have been hotter races and harder races but anyone who finishes Boulder 2018 deserves a bit of extra credit for being bad ass.
Last edited by: Petrus101: Jun 12, 18 12:57
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Iron Dukie] [ In reply to ]
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Iron Dukie wrote:
I raced in Boulder on Sunday and there's no doubt it was hot, though I can think of some other IMs I've done that seemed as hot or hotter. IM Austria in 2012 and IM Louisville in 2008 come to mind (and maybe even IM Texas 2016) just from the races I've done. I'd be a bit surprised if Boulder 2018 is in the list of top 10 hottest IMs ever. It was definitely hot, but there also have been a lot of really hot races in Louisville, Wisconsin, Coeur d'Alene and other places over the years.

Everyone loves to get excited about temperature because it is an easily available metric that everyone understands but in reality it is just one piece of the equation. Radiant energy makes it more difficult, lack of wind (air flow) make it more difficult. Dew point and humidity, once above 70 become really important as your body becomes so much less efficient at shedding heat. Altitude can be a huge challenge and that is hard for those that travel to Boulder. When it comes to absolute temperature, CDA and China come to mind. I always love hard races as they allow for opportunity for others to mistakes and if you are patient and smart you can capitalize on those mistakes. Congrats on your race.


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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Everyone loves to get excited about temperature because it is an easily available metric that everyone understands but in reality it is just one piece of the equation. Radiant energy makes it more difficult, lack of wind (air flow) make it more difficult. Dew point and humidity, once above 70 become really important as your body becomes so much less efficient at shedding heat. Altitude can be a huge challenge and that is hard for those that travel to Boulder. When it comes to absolute temperature, CDA and China come to mind. I always love hard races as they allow for opportunity for others to mistakes and if you are patient and smart you can capitalize on those mistakes. Congrats on your race.

The heat was brutal, the headwind on the second lap of the bike did not help.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure that there have been plenty of IM races that have been held in much worse conditions than Boulder on Sunday and I have no real interest in comparing it to other races, but the temperature readout of 93* in Boulder undersells the conditions a bit. Almost all of the bike course was north of Boulder proper - and the weather station at 63rd and Jay - and a more appropriate gauge might be the 99.5* or so that the Longmont/Hygiene area started hitting by shortly after noon and hovered near until around 7pm. It was a record for the day by nearly 4*. Combine that with the increased strength of the sun at 5400' above sea level, and it was incredibly brutal. I live and "race" (very badly...) in the area, and the conditions were truly worse than you'd reasonably expect to encounter.

Personally, I couldn't stay anywhere near hydrated no matter what I consumed. I'm grateful to simply have finished without finding myself in a med tent, and am in awe of anyone who could come close to following their race plan on Sunday. Also, the volunteers should all be up for sainthood.
Last edited by: MoveSlow: Jun 12, 18 15:03
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [MoveSlow] [ In reply to ]
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I dont think folks that dont live here fully understand the UV-intensity/microwave/searing skin-boiling from the inside effect until they've experienced it first hand. Over the years numerous 'deep south' folks come out here thinking that they can take it only for the different kind of heat to really nuke them.

Was it bad, nah. Is it a type of heat that differs from what most folks are used to and the gap between expectations and reality screws with them in the head? Yup.

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Last edited by: MarkyV: Jun 12, 18 15:08
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [MoveSlow] [ In reply to ]
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MoveSlow wrote:
I'm sure that there have been plenty of IM races that have been held in much worse conditions than Boulder on Sunday and I have no real interest in comparing it to other races, but the temperature readout of 93* in Boulder undersells the conditions a bit. Almost all of the bike course was north of Boulder proper - and the weather station at 63rd and Jay - and a more appropriate gauge might be the 99.5* or so that the Longmont/Hygiene area started hitting by shortly after noon and hovered near until around 7pm. It was a record for the day by nearly 4*. Combine that with the increased strength of the sun at 5400' above sea level, and it was incredibly brutal. I live and "race" (very badly...) in the area, and the conditions were truly worse than you'd reasonably expect to encounter.

Personally, I couldn't stay anywhere near hydrated no matter what I consumed. I'm grateful to simply have finished without finding myself in a med tent, and am in awe of anyone who could come close to following their race plan on Sunday. Also, the volunteers should all be up for sainthood.

110% agree

Ten 26oz Camelbak Bottles of Skratch/Carbo Pro was not nearly enough for me on the bike. And yes, THANK GOD for the volunteers on the Bike and Run (I did see a volunteer pass out at the aid station on St Vrain on the second loop).

-------------------------------------------------------------
Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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"people at Boulder don't plan the same way and are blindsided by paces that are unrealistic to what they trained for."

THAT is a massive factor. Some athletes already going into the race underprepared 1 + no plan to pace with regards to altitude and the specific needs of the Boulder course 2 + no plan to adjust pace and fluid intake based on hot weather that was in the forecast well ahead of time. 3 ... The recipe for 1+2+3 = a High DNF Rate ... I have seen countless data files form athletes in these environments where the first 4 hours of day are not only above the athletes ability level BUT way above the ability / preparedness level + environmental conditions that follow.

A common comment I hear when people reference IM Boulder or when they referenced IM Lake Tahoe ... "That altitude doesn't have much effect" ... It's Ok to believe that, it's just simply not true.

There were some terrific performances by experienced and / or well prepared athletes at Boulder in tough conditions.

Best everyone can do is learn from it and always be prepared for the environment specific race venues can generate.

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.traintoendure.com
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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MarkyV wrote:
I dont think folks that dont live here fully understand the UV-intensity/microwave/searing skin-boiling from the inside effect until they've experienced it first hand. Over the years numerous 'deep south' folks come out here thinking that they can take it only for the different kind of heat to really nuke them.

Was it bad, nah. Is it a type of heat that differs from what most folks are used to and the gap between expectations and reality screws with them in the head? Yup.

noticed this as soon as i moved to the SW from 32 years in the SE. it's just so different. the only people that should do boulder are people that live in boulder. or a place just like it.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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TJ56 wrote:
I love wearing my IMSG 2012 Finisher shirt - that was a tough one to earn!

Thomas Gerlach wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
I believe it was deemed not to have superceded CdA in 2015 and a few other notable hot ones.


Fwiw there were 1780 for Ironman St George in 2012 and 1001 finishers - it was hot but it wasn't the heat that made it a tough day. The people who got yanked from the water were listed as DNS. There were 5 people to go under 10 hours that day, all 5 were male pros with Ben Hoffman taking the win in 9:07. Meredith Kessler was the first female in 10+ hours. I know everyone likes to tell war stories but Weather Underground has Boulder at 93 with an extremely low dew point and humidity albeit it at altitude. Bottom line from my experience is unlike Louisville, where people planned for it to be oppressive, people at Boulder don't plan the same way and are blindsided by paces that are unrealistic to what they trained for.

Here are the 2012 STG results if anyone is interested.
I still wear my shirt on special occasions. That day, 'effort' got a totally new meaning. No race will ever be able to top the accomplishment from finishing that day.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Peak State Fit] [ In reply to ]
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I was out there and my body revolted the back half of the run. Knowing it was going to be hot, I took some extra precautions with clothing, pacing, etc., but the one thing I didn't do was add another bottle cage to my bike, which cost me my race I think. If I had any advice for the RD, it would have been to put a smallish aid station with the volunteers at bike special needs. Special needs was after a particularly difficult section of wind and false flats, and on the 2nd loop, 15-17 miles was a bit too far between aid stations.

What made the day so challenging was how fast your mouth and clothes were drying. I wore cooling sleeves on the bike and gave them a good squirt at every aid station. They would be bone dry about 5 minute later. Same issue with taking a sip of hydration: your mouth would be bone dry seemingly 5 minutes later.

I fell victim to this as well, the bike course was somewhat positioned to be "easy", and having done the 70.3 last year, which has "some" overlap, I probably fell victim to thinking the bike would be a bit easier than it played out. The wind was a huge factor when heading west, and it certainly added to the drying sensation folks were feeling in their mouths, etc.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Peak State Fit] [ In reply to ]
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Odd, my iPhone said the hottest it got was 93 F. The weather app may not be accurate, but I was out there in the dead of the day spraying down people with a hose as they ran by. Never did I see anything even close to 100 & I checked it pretty much every hour.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Petrus101] [ In reply to ]
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103 F is NOT accurate for that day in Boulder, it never got that hot. Like I said, 93 F is the hottest I had seen & even timeanddate.com shows at 2:47 PM on June 10th, the hottest recorded in Boulder was 95 F. It did not even feel like 103 F...I've been in that kind of weather a lot & it wasn't 103 F. Maybe out towards Longmont in a small pocket of land, but certainly not on the run at any location in town.

What made that day so difficult with the heat was very little shade. Running from the Rez is entirely open and there are several long sections of grades & false flats. Jay Rd itself is a 1-2% grade variation depending on very specific sections of that short portion. Then the grade going West towards the Elk's Club is a 1-2% grade fairly consistently from about 2.5 miles in...that is a tough dog-slow section on any day.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Rocky M wrote:
103 F is NOT accurate for that day in Boulder, it never got that hot. Like I said, 93 F is the hottest I had seen & even timeanddate.com shows at 2:47 PM on June 10th, the hottest recorded in Boulder was 95 F. It did not even feel like 103 F...I've been in that kind of weather a lot & it wasn't 103 F. Maybe out towards Longmont in a small pocket of land, but certainly not on the run at any location in town.

What made that day so difficult with the heat was very little shade. Running from the Rez is entirely open and there are several long sections of grades & false flats. Jay Rd itself is a 1-2% grade variation depending on very specific sections of that short portion. Then the grade going West towards the Elk's Club is a 1-2% grade fairly consistently from about 2.5 miles in...that is a tough dog-slow section on any day.

Strange. Any my wife did Chattanooga '16 and her Edge said 106* at a few points on the second half of the bike course, but the quoted temp for that race (in this thread or one of the other Boulder ones) was lower.

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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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The very high tree pollen count seemed to impact me. Also, the lack of any cloud cover on the bike didn’t help. I agree that the aid stations were too far apart on the bike. I carried three bottles and filled each at every aid station on the second loop but still found myself out of water at times. But .... IM isn’t supposed to be easy and that’s part of why I keep going back for more. Different races present different challenges. I’ve raced in 106 degree air temperature with a heat index of 120 in a race where sunset wasn’t until after 10:00 pm, and I’ve raced on cold, rainy days. You never know what the day may bring, and for me that’s part of what keeps it interesting. For me, being flexible and adopting as needed during a race is a part of the challenge of IM. I always go into IM expecting that something will come up to cause me to need to change my race plan during the day, and if that doesn’t happen I consider it a bonus.
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Re: IM Boulder DNF Rate? [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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MarkyV wrote:
I dont think folks that dont live here fully understand the UV-intensity/microwave/searing skin-boiling from the inside effect until they've experienced it first hand. Over the years numerous 'deep south' folks come out here thinking that they can take it only for the different kind of heat to really nuke them.

Was it bad, nah. Is it a type of heat that differs from what most folks are used to and the gap between expectations and reality screws with them in the head? Yup.

I agree about the different type of heat. And the wind in Boulder Sunday didn’t help. It was a tough day to stay hydrated. I live in the south so train in hot and humid conditions 4 months of the year. The intense sun and dry heat at Boulder were new to me. Usually during IM I only apply sunscreen in the transitions but last Sunday in Boulder I also stopped for sunscreen three times while out on the course, in addition to in transitions, because the sun was so intense. I also think I overdid it with the hydration because I had more bathroom stops then normal. For me, I learned a lot more from the experience then I would have if it was a cool and cloudy day with no wind. I’m sure Sunday wasn’t the last time I’ll face tough race conditions and I’ll be more confident going forward because of what I learned in Boulder. Yes it was brutal, but the conditions were the same for everyone and I think that most people who competed will be better prepared for future tris because of their experience.
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