Perhaps that you weren't even measuring power when you noticed the difference in speeds and simply went based on RPE.


So, comparing yourself to Galileo was not enough; now it is all the great physicists?

I totally understand where you are coming from; when I was an undergrad, I knew everything too.

Shane

Oh the first three rides where as air front and rear, water front and rear, water rear stinger front. All within 3 watts of each other on a calm day, I'd say that's pretty controlled.

And yet you weren't able to determine any differences in Crr.

Shane

You are really something, so its a bad thing to learn something from the greats in physics I see. I should learn something from you instead.

Where did I say not to learn from great physicists? What I said was that you were comparing yourself to the great physicists; while you may turn out to be a great physicist yourself, perhaps a little humility is in order.

Personally, I learn from people everyday; when I propose something and it is challenged, I take those questions and try to answer them, not resort to more conjecture and handwaving about how what I am doing is right.

Shane

not one bit. The water rear with stinger front actually got a faster result than the Tri spoke rear and stinger front. The water water set up got faster than the air air set up. I road hundreds of miles with the water on normal rides I do but there was other things that varied, my clothes might have been different, different bottle ext. Thats why I haven't mentioned any other results, that and all my data is gone(weep weep). I never noticed and losses. So if you combine that they are heavier and that the water should have a higher rolling resistance(according to you guys no study or data to prove it though :) I should have easily been able to notice something in all the riding I did. Guess what if there is losses and its within the margin of error to detect I DO NOT CARE because at that point it becomes an issue of which rides better for me. Just like you seeing Crowie or Chrissie wearing a normal helmet while all the other riders are wearing aero helmets.

Here is the order of how things happened


Charles "hey riding heavier wheels can be of benefit, Moser Russian guy yada yada" Me "hmm really, whats the heaviest tire you have"

Later that day Me "wow this is really interesting"

Me at bike shop "that was pretty interesting how do I go heavier?" Steve "inflate with water' Me "hm interesting how do I do that" Steve "yada yada"

Me riding with water "wow this is really interesting" Me looking at power tap data "wow this is again really interesting"

Then I started using physics to try and explain what happened, do you get it now. I came up with all the reasons I like riding heavy to help explain the phenomenon that occured when I actually went out and road heavy. Some of it coming from my physics professor and Charles from the bike shop, a guy with a lot of experience and someone I chat with about cycling quite a bit.

True the common man has taught me just as much as any of the "greats.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Did you actually go looking for Crr differences? IIWY that would seem to be a logical starting point and then move into your moment of inertia stuff.

Shane

I don't see what was so wrong with the Rayleigh-Jeans Law - Planck just wanted to make life difficult by actually modelling experimental reaults. Who needs quantum mechanics anyway?

Shane

Quantum car drivers.

Asad

I actually considered that water had some how lowered the Crr, I did'nt know that it was suppose to be higher. I ask the guys at the bike shop if they new anything about the Crr of water inflation and they did'nt no either. So far I've seen no data that shows that it actually is higher, I've googled it. As far as Crr is concerned I've found that wheels tested with good Crr perform well on a nice smooth to decent road quality, while a thicker tire with more rubber(and higher measured Crr) performs better on rougher lesser quality pavement, of which there i plenty of in my home turf. Most half and full courses seem to have good pavement as they commonly use commonly those two lane highways and long stretches of well maintained roads. I also prefer a lower psi on the back and higher on the front to get good traction on the back and good Crr on the front.

Your good. Real good. I nominate this thread for Troll of the Year.

Let me set the Record straight this is not a troll post, I am dead serious. Do you have anything useful to bring to the conversation? So do you know what the Crr effect of water is, if you do please tell me because I would really like to know.

So why not test the behaviour or Crr first to understand how one of your variables behaves? If there is no data vailable, would it not make sense to develop your own data rather than assume?

As to higher Crr on rough roads; where have you read that high Crr would be preferable to low Crr?

Shane

Was it the weight of the water or the water in the tire itself that improved your ride quality?

I believe howardjd has also suggested the possibility of trying... wait for it ... vegetable oil ... in the tubes. A high Prandtl number fluid like oil will surely do to cycling what cold fusion has done to nuclear physics.

Whether this has any scientific merit or not, I'd really like to see someone do it. I personally will sponsor the cost of the vegetable oil needed.

howardjd?

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AndyF
bike geek

When can we expect a version of AeroLab with a wheel inertia slider :)

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

The weight I believe. The funny thing is, is that its almost impossible to get more than about 90psi in with the pump. Feeling it with your hand you fell a sort of springiness.

Wheel inertia is definitely something that would be useful. Here is one of my posts about including the term:
http://andyfroncioni.com/...database-for-wheels/

Should I put in Prandtl number, too?

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AndyF
bike geek

Oh teach me the ways old trollmeister, I have much to learn. Dead serious is a gem, I'll use that one.

It was actually my dad who suggested it to me mentioning oil in tractor tires growing up, Steve from cycles de oro also suggested it. I am going to try it but as I'm recovering from oseitis pubis(damage to the cartilage and tendons that connect the pubis bone) there is an undetermined amount of time until I can actually start riding again. From what I read the condition will get better if you rest properly but can take quite awhile, a study on Australian football players had recovery time between 6months to 5years. Its been a year and gradually feeling better so hopefully at least by next year. It will take a lot of oil to fill a tub high enough to submerge the pump.

what does high prandti number mean by chance?

again do you have anything to contribute or are you the one Trolling?

So let me get this straight.

The HowardJD method:
1) Run a field test
2) Make up equations to try to match field test
3) Wave hands

You should look into this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

That is what the 'great's use, what you use is what the 'common man' uses

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com