I would have said the answer is to NOT out Swim and out Bike the people who pass you. Do enough to be in contention with them. Then unleash it all on the Run.

Sounds like a pacing/tactical issue more than a fitness aspect. Smashing the bike will inevitably lead to a poor run.

As long as they are not going too hard on the swim/bike, why should he ease up because people outrun him? Soft pedaling the bike doesn't magically gift you run speed (assume not overbiking).

So if someone can outswim me by 10min but I outrun them by 30min, they should swim with me to minimize the run difference? Eehhhhhh

(I missed that this was the OPs first IM btw)

He has 3 options

Improve his run speed so he doesn't get caught
Smash the swim and the bike build a bigger gap and hope to hang on. In the same way a certain Canadian does.
Burn his matches in a different way. If he went (relatively) slower on the Swim/bike, he'd almost certainly have more left in the tank for the Run. That could make the difference and its worth trying at least once

Your example of a runner 30mins faster. Is a situation that is pretty much impossible to overcome IMO. No one who is getting caught on the run will ever find 30 mins in a marathon! (unless they are slow like 4hrs+)

How tall are you?

#190. That’s the problem. Think Starky. Your energy expedature for a fast run is huge. Very few people at that weight can run fast. What are your open 1/2 and Full mary?

Don't think about it as "bleeding time". That creates a ton of negative energy. Always think forward and positive. Don't think about the guys who are going to catch you, rather think about the guys up the road you are going to catch. If you are racing an Ironman and not walking, then you will be catching someone. And if, like your race on the weekend there is nobody to catch and only chasers, Then set time goals. Mile splits. Total Run time. Or make the goal to hurt more anyone else. Don't worry about bleeding time to other people, just remember that the faster YOU get to the finish line the more likely you are to beat the other guys. Find what works for you to execute your best race. Best way to plan out what you want to think of at different parts of the race, visualize that while out on hard training sessions and practice it in smaller races.

And because you said IM Chattanooga is your A race: heat training. When I raced it in 2016, it was freaking hot and humid and nobody ran fast. So come prepared, but also practice things that work for you on the race course. Holding Ice. Clothing. That kind of stuff.

To give specific training advice, I think a lot more information is needed. But I will that I think that everyone should do strides. 6x6-80m acceleration. I do them towards the end of every run.

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5'11'-6'

I have a weightlifters build.

I figured this is the big glaring issue, if that is really my problem I will lose what I can and chalk the rest up to it is what it is and make them chase for as long as I can the big gorilla in front them! It is amazing what Starky can do for an run at his size though.

I have never raced an open half. I did an open Mary 4yrs ago but I ran with my wife to support her. We did it just under 5hrs.

I think I need to find a couple of races and sign up for them.

In training when I have ran my 1/2 distances I am right around a 7:30 per/mile +/- depending on the day 7:15 is a good/great day. Yesterday I ran a 7:55 per/mile average.

I am not overpacing on the swim or the bike. I was well within my abilities on those. I even held back a little the last couple of miles, just in case.

I am not a great runner, this is coming off the bike or in an open run. I am trying to figure out if I need to up my mileage or am I just going to have to deal with my run being what my run is because at 190# a 30-50# weight difference between me and the guys catching me is to much to overcome, I get it. I will do everything I can to make them chase me for as long as I can and laugh with them after the race how a gorilla was beating them for a while.

I’m past my prime, but will comment as I am just over 6’, and PRd my open marathon at #187 at age 29. (50 last week so....). I did 3 hours flat in the Portland marathon in 1997. I was able to run 7:30 pace at Vineman Half too. My training back then was primarily running. I hit the track with the Santa Cruz Track Club each Wednesday, and never missed a group long run. My swimming training barely existed, so I gave up time there, but I ran down a lot of folks.
Hot races did suck for me, since I couldn’t shed the heat. But I raced Cal International, December, and Big Sur, March as my A races instead of mid summer stuff.
People are different, but let’s not assume your height and size are the only contributors. 5+ hours for an open marathon doesn’t sound like you’ve trained the run as you could. I bet you smash me on the bike, and my money is on big improvements with more time in running shoes.

Michael

Ditch the weight

you're just a stronger swimmer and biker than runner. it is what it is. you could likely run faster if you drop some weight and within reason that shouldn't adversely affect your swim and bike but as it stands, this will be the pattern of your race.
i'm the opposite - an average at best swimmer, decent biker and better runner (often fastest run split in my tris). its mentally better for me as i'm running people down once i'm out of the water but when it comes to it we each do our race and the combination of our abilities in the different disciplines determines our final result. you know you're going to lose places on the run so don't get too excited at being in 2nd place, just race each leg as best you can.

that said, you hopefully realise that you need to focus on the run in training if you do want to stop bleeding time on the run. probably too late in the short term but take your next off season as a heavy run block, watch what you eat to shed some weight and see if you can find your running legs

How many km’s per week are you consistently running? Say over the last month, 3 months and 6 months? What does that training look like?

^ This

I'm currently weighing in at 185#, not body fat, but a 'weightlifters build' as well. I'm 5'10". I used to be 155# a year and a bit ago, and I can tell you the difference is huge. I'm not as fit aerobically as I was, but my bike FTP is about 15% down on where I was, where my aerobic (Z2) run speed is close to a minute per km slower. Added to that my joints feel completely beat up after every run. Losing 20-30# will be a massive difference

What were your mile splits on the run?

I don't see why you think there is a specific problem with your run.
If you paced it right, for you, then the fact you're stronger on the swim & bike and they're faster on the run doesn't mean you're doing something wrong on the run. Should they be looking at the results and saying "Hey, I ran much faster than that guy but I was slower on the swim and bike, What's rong with my swim and bike?"
You'll have a different balance of performances to others. If you're big, it's to be expected that the bike and swim will be your better disciplines. If for some other reason you think your run is poor, work on your run. If your balance/pacing seems reasonable then just try and get faster overall. Maybe it's a better strategy to try and gain even more of a lead before T2 because you potential for improving the run is limited. I don't know. But don't take it as obvious that because others run by you, your run is deficient.

Take it from a guy that's 208cm tall - yes it sucks, but it will not change. Unless you shed some weight, get rid of lots of muscle and end up at 6% body fat. Think Jan Frodeno is 192cm but has roughly the same weight as some of his 175 contenders? But I don't know if that's possible for an agegrouper with family and job, it requires too much sacrifice in my opinion. But even if you lose a few pounds, it might not make you a top runner. If you currently run 40min on a 10k, you might come down to 38 maybe if you are becoming a really lean guy. But the 35min runner will still be faster.There is probably a reason why Patrick Lange holds the run course record in Kona, and not Jan Frodeno, and I doubt Jan is training less than Patrick. Physiology is what it is. And Jan did run the 10k below 30 mins, but on a long hot course like Kona the smaller guy will always have a better run.

For me its additionally a problem that I cant do too much running without risk for injury. The physical stress on your body is just huge when you are a big guy. 50-60k a week is my max, and then I need a low-run week for my body to recover, and that will be considerably less than the competitors that overtake me. You can compensate a little by doing 40k bike plus 20k run brick session instead of 30k long run for example, but you still wont be able to train as small light lean athlete could.

My coaches advise: Train on the bike even harder. First your time gap to the faster runners will be bigger, second you will still come off the bike with more energy left to run, so your run should be a little better. And when it comes to long course, if you run smart you can probably overtake at least 50% of the guys that pass you early on in the last 10k, when they explode and you don't. Don't get discouraged if you cant hold your position on the beginning of the run course! Bike strength and mental strength will make your day in IMChatt!

And then work on your run and bike

+1, at least conceptually.

All else being equal, cycling on level terrain favors bigger individuals, just like, e.g., rowing. This will skew the relationship between cycling and running splits in flat-ish triathlons. Short of losing 20 lbs, I don't think the OP can ever expect their running to match their cycling.

What was the run course like at your 70.3? Hilly? Flat? How about Chattanooga?

Clearly, weight is a big liability on the run. The others here who stress it are correct. No matter the terrain, it really matters. I encounter big differences with even a 5 pound weight loss.

But you are at less of a disadvantage on a flat course as you would be on a hilly one. Perhaps if the 70.3 was very hilly but your next race is flat, you might not suffer as much in time relatively speaking

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...your_time._P1051716/

That took me from a 1:50 HIM run to a 1:32 HIM run. It works.

The only reason my marathon was 5hrs was because I ran it with my wife at her pace. If I were to do an open marathon it wouldn't be anywhere near a 5hr split. I love my wife and sex more than my own personal pride which is why I didn't take off for a better time. This is also the only open marathon I have ever run.

Depending on the week I am anywhere between 43-56km a week. that is over the last 3-6mon. I tend to be around the 43-45km mark most of the month and then will increase to the 56km for a week.

The run course wasn't hilly or flat I would say it was a good mix. It more of a roller. Most of my training was on the flatter side which I know didn't help me. Chattanooga is supposed to be similar to the 70.3 I just did in that it has some elevation but more specifically it has a couple of hills at the half way point and at the end of the run.