Who is this for? What makes you think the owners of the Ironman brand want it to be a sport and not a lifestyle brand?

at the same time we see that people are not going to pay big bucks for a race if it is less than a a race than a parkrun which is free. if it gets to easy it loses the appeal as we can clearly see with qualifiying for ironman worlds .

also its not just an ironman issue its a triathlon issue

you need to provide a race and an event an then let the people chose what they want , i guess. and to be clear non of the two are better but you you can not just provide lifestyle.

Whose problem or problems does this solve and why would Ironman make sacrifices to solve them?

(Also, obligatory comment about Ironman always being a brand and never a sport).

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

i like some of these ideas but, as the others have said, who are they for? it seems like it's aimed at the small-ish segment of agegroupers who don't feel that kona is 'hardcore enough' anymore. so i guess having stricter terms would make those athletes feel better about being in a more 'selective' race, but it wouldn't change the race itself. but having to do TWO ironman distance races in a year in order to qualify for kona feels like a bad idea. even from a cost POV i wouldn't be able to swing it, and from a health POV 3x IM in a year isn't too sustainable.

as for the bolded part, i think it's a dilemma. i agree that it isn't a good luck when you're desperately giving away slots to the so-called world championship. on the other hand, it's kona - are you willing to let that race fail if the 'best of the best' don't want to take their slot? maybe rolldowns are what IM need to do to stay in business?

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

When I started our local race I talked with a friend who I think is the best race director in the country looking for advice. The best piece and first piece he gave me was that only 5% - 10% of any race are really competitors (at WC percent goes up but not as much as you think). He called competitors "fighter dogs" and fighter dogs don't care . . . they just want to race. They will race around cones in a parking lot and be fine if allowed to "fight" it out. The 90 - 95% + of folks want a memorable experience. Cater to the 90-95% and you will be successful . . . the fighter dogs will still come.

For the most part, Ironman has done a pretty dog-gone (pun intended) good job for the 90-95%.

You do have some good ideas that would be interesting, but most of your comments apply to a very small percentage and probably would hurt more than help.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

seems like a bankruptcy starter kit. . .

What does this mean?

But what happens is the pro men roll up on them and the front few women benefit from the BOP male pro that eventually catch them.
The only way to have a fair race is for them to be the only ones on the road (and stop having the moto parade so close to the leaders).

ROFLOL

100% exactly correct!

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Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Lol fighter dogs love it and so true

Interesting it is only 5 - 10%

Makes sense why I disagree with so many other triathletes about so many things lol

Science has curves, how much we decline with age. So if we have qualifying standards in the more competitive age groups, we should use this knowledge to set minimum standards for all age groups.
Eg when a M35 athlete takes 9:00 to win an agegroup, a M50 athlete should qualify with a time of 9:30-10:15, but definitely not with 14:00, just because no competitor cared to join.

On the other hand, if the M50 winner takes 9:00 and the winner in the M25 11 hours, the M25 athlete should not qualify.

Well, long distance is already declining, the hype train moved on, races get cancelled and slots rolled down to "whoever wants".
Ironman has zero credibility on shorter distances, the best short distance athletes do ITU and PTO.

So people like me, who do many races, and - until 2017 - did 18 ironman branded ones, will be the most important customer group.
The same happened in golf, tennis and indoor climbing, once the hype train moves on, the old timers are the main customers.

And until ironman becomes a proper sport again, I will prefer challenge races or local races. But who will pay the inflated starting fees, if ironman as a sport is destroyed and others (like challenge) offer the better holyday packages and locations?

So to race the world champs, you need to race min 3 ironmans in a year? (Qualifier + continental champs + world champs) . Continental seasons might be prohibitive.

Just to be sure, continental means NA, Europe, Asia Pacific, Africa...? Are qualifier races attached to continental races? Ie. People that qualify in germany have to get through a european qualifier to get to the worlds? People who qualify in durban need to qualify again in the african champs?

ironman isnt a sport, it s a distance in the sport of triathlon. it s a proper distance but currently, that distance is running out of new participant and also struggling to keep it s current race in.

what they need to do, work on the grass roots. They have canibalize so many of the races around the world and it is now hurting them as there is no newer athlete entering the sport.

They need to be better at this and they need to make the ironman event much better like they use to be 15-20 years ago. if they offer a quality product like they did in the past and focus a bit more on grass root, the distance will once again raise in popularity. But it s not a sport... it s a distance, one event that is part of many event in the sport of triathlon.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Is it a distance or is it a brand? Agree, its not a sport.

a bit of both....by history, we call it the ironman distance but you are very right to point out that it is a brand!!

for many years, independant event would call there races ironman distance until WTC sued everyone for the use of the word. That is in part what i consider there canibalizing the sport and it s slowly catching up to them.

That said, grass root triathlon need to be short course...and affortable structure. we need people to come in and for people to be able to take part in the sport without breaking the bank.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

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It is both a distance and a brand. It is the Ironman distance,most are Ironman branded and some are not.

The term "full distance" came out of the UK (I think) a few years ago and is misleading because it gives no context.Back in the day there were Ironman's and Half Ironman's (which later got branded 70.3). Even the term "Middle Distance" has sprung up out of the UK and I ask. "middle" of what?

Agree

I'd say it's because in the UK there are a good handful of iron and half iron distance races that are local non branded races and I think I recall that they were not allowed to use the term iron distance so they adopted the terms full and middle instead.

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Yep and it comes from the huge interest in all thing Ironman and total disinterest in all the other distances in the sport.
Sprint,Olympic,Long Course and now the 100k (something we had in Oz before the PTO made it popular) are all "full" triathlons.
What are Ulta-Triathlons? Overflow's? Overfulls?

Just being pedantic but it has always interested me how those terms came about as people handwaved away all the other triathlon distances.

I'd say full makes some sense but I've never understood why they use middle. Long course or distance was always a better "expression" and half distance because you know it basically means half Ironman. Middle distance doesn't really sit right with me either.

Rare time where response = endorsement.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
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Good.

I know a lot of people in this forum jerk off to the M-Dot, but let's be serious. They have forced the shutdown of competing race directors and have created a sales funnel so that everybody will overpay under a false guise of "demand". It didn't used to be this way.

It is safe to say that there is a large number of participants in today's races that don't even know how "ironman" became a brand. They were just a race promoter who sued other race promoters out of business.

It's pathetic.