Unfortunately yes, over-biking is a very common cause of a poor run. With a 2:57 open run you probably have a good sense of your running fitness and also what 8:00/mile feels like.

I'm just wondering how much extra time would be talked on to my run from over biking?

Major GI issues can be caused by things other than over biking. Over biking would cause your legs to be dead, but GI issues? You can't really pin that on over biking without taking other factors into considerations ... like nutrition.

In most people's best case scenario, their IM run is about 30 minutes slower than their open marathon. Were your run fitness up to par? Or, was that 2:57 done many moons ago?

---

__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

99% of GI issue are pacing issue. It s simple, it s easy to avoid.

ride easier, you will digest anything

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Unfortunately, GI issues are first tracked to overpacing. Plenty of it written here and elsewhere.

+1

Absolutely true, almost every time.

If your "perfect" ride is, say, 175w NP, then even riding at 180w can wreck your run.

And you pick up a few minutes on the bike, at most.

I was expecting to ride 5:09-5:12 and I rode 5:00. I ran the 2:57 marathon 10 months ago but I'm the same run fitness wise (if not faster). However, I had to take 3 weeks off running 6 weeks before the race so I was only able to run 2.5 weeks before the race. I missed a few long runs and run volume. So maybe it was combo of nutrition, bike pacing, and missing those last couple of peak run training weeks. I'm just wonder if I rode 5 mins slower would I have really run 30 mins or so faster?

Good question. I went about 5 minutes faster on the bike than I though I would but 10 minutes slower on my run. I wonder if 5 minutes on the bike slower would have been 10 min faster on the run. Probably only guys with many IM under their belt can give you a ball park.

I'd say you wouldn't suffer at all.... you'd be walking and generally walking does not hurt.

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Race simulation in training. it will answer all your questions/pacing/nutritions

Ironman ride---- should be a very control and easier ride than what you have achieve in training

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I feel like I danced the line in my first IM on over biking and I think it probably made it hurt less overall. I was fighting cramping and my run form fell apart accordingly, it hurt, but I didn't go into the dark place where you're battling fatigue and your energy systems limits combined. When I've biked a little too hard, I can tell pretty early on that I'll need to drop my run pace accordingly.

I think I I had biked closer to my pacing plan (lower VI, maybe 1% lower AP) I would have gone only 2-3 minutes slower, but I think I run 7-10 minutes faster... and that's going to hurt a hell of a lot more, but I'll reach the line sooner.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

That was funny. Agree...completely. What hurts is that on the edge pushing when you are over and done. I advocate throwing in the towel on the extra few minutes and enjoying things....

Dave

If you really rode that hard, you were very lucky to run within 30 minutes of goal....

Bike 5 watts too hard, likely lose 10 minutes on run.
10 watts - 20 minutes lost.
15 plus.....walking and losing 6-8 minutes per mile....

Dave

Do you have any data to back this statement up? First of all to me it would seem that it depends on what your FTP is, 5W for 150FTP is obviously a bigger diff than 5W for 350FTP. Second of all, this is just way too broad a statement, and begs for more questions than answers. You could be spot on in your wattage but still fry your run if you spike your power on climbs or headwind sections.

I overcooked the bike in Maryland as well. My IF was .83
felt it on the run big time. I was also hoping for a sub 3:30 and ran 3:41 :P

So I figure the 10 minutes faster bike cost me 15 minutes on the run.
Dropping me from 2nd to 4th in my age group.

---

Proudly sponsored by Orleans Cycles, Turbo Cranks, and the csdceo

That sucks if you were shooting for a KQ!

---

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

I also overdid the bike a bit at IMMD. Did the bike part in 4h45' and I think I overdid it slightly due to the difference between NP and avg power. Here at home all my training routes have lots of hills, increasing NP and VI and lowering avg power. So at IMMD I was shooting for the same target NP that I've done in training, however that came with a lower VI and higher NP and clearly that created more muscle fatigue. The last hour I really had to slow down (or should i say the legs slowed down without me having any say in the matter) but not much impact on my overall bike split.

First few miles on the run I really felt like I had gone out too hard on the bike and ran slower than planned. Also had some relatively small GI issues (bloating) but it went away with running slower. Wanted to run a sub 4h marathon and did a 3h 57'. So I don't know if my bike was overall too hard, therefore preventing a (for me) even faster run vs my goal, or if I had paced it almost right and that suffering for the entire marathon is just what happens when you're destroying your PR. Not sure!

---

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

At IMMoo in 2007 I rode a 5:5X. Probably about 10 min faster than my ability at that time. I projected myself to run 3:50 and went something like 4:30 cuz my stomach was upset.

So that put me about 30 minutes behind.

jaretj

My run went south with a side ache/stitch at mile 9 even though I felt like I was right on pace. By the time the stitch was gone at mile 16, my legs felt dead. I think I over biked by about 5 minutes to 10 minutes and knew I was doing it. I think minus the side ache(although it could've been over biking related) I would've been maybe 5 minutes slower than my goal on that course perhaps but would've suffered greatly. After my run PR was out of reach, I just went "easy" but could tell the legs were more painful than they should've been.

So for me probably over biking a bit percentage wise is better but I'm a sucky biker and a relatively okay runner. It would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on how best to test this in training without doing a full.

My last FTP test was 280(2 weeks before). I rode 5:00 so I figure I was probably 30 watts over which is a lot. Every time I tried to run faster than 8:30 pace I would get cramps. My legs felt okay until mile 18 but I guess this is expected. I felt if I didn't have the cramps I could have ran faster. I had the energy but my body wasn't letting me run fast.

I would argue that most people don't know what it is like to NOT push the bike too hard.

---

#######
My Blog

I am a serial over-biker.
And am someone who also starts the Ironman run too fast.
Yet, even with some epic implosions, I seem to be able to drag my weary ass to the finish line ahead of people who usually beat me over shorter distances.

My questions-
1) On only 9 hrs a week of consistent bike training (and that during hard weeks), is it really possible to ride 112 miles sufficiently "easy"?
It's a long way!
2) If you could ride it easy, wouldn't you end up loosing almost as much time as you might gain on the run?
3) Now: this open marathon time + 30 minutes thing. Is this evidence of a well paced bike?
If you can run 26.2 miles holding 6:30s- running 7:40s does not feel like you are "holding it together."

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to pace an Ironman correctly.
(If only to post-pone the misery as long as possible).

I just wonder if it is possible for (even a FOP AG racer) to "not over-bike"?
Maybe I just need more hard cycling in training.
(I usually average less than 1hr of hard cycling per week).

On the other hand, maybe this short-long run model of training is lacking. And I have benefitted from ignoring it. I have practice running 8:40 miles dehydrated, exhausted, verging on heat stroke, vomitting.
And I can reproduce that in a race.
If I have too.
I am not sure that that is completely useless skill.

Uhhh, actually, I think most people overbike on HIM and IM events and up with run split times wayyy slower than their open times.

That's what he's saying. Double negative.