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How much power loss using spd pedals?
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Have there been studies showing how much power you lose using MTB spd pedals vs spd-sl pedals?

I have the favero pedals which are great but no way I would use them on my gravel rides. But with the new sram spd power pedals coming out it would be nice to have one set of power pedals
Last edited by: mickison: Nov 15, 19 3:41
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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None.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I think your biggest limiter would be your shoes. a large number of mtb shoes are intended to have a little flex, but some high end xc or cross type shoes should be plenty fine
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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I second the answer, none.

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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [A_Hooligan] [ In reply to ]
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what ever you do, DO NOT put SPD MTB cleats on road shoes, this is a bad idea. The MTB cleats are meant to have the support of the side bars found on MTB shoes and are not designed for the flat sole of a road shoe and so they are not optimal and could lead to issues if you are looking at power and performance. But as said above, a really stiff MTB performance shoe should have similar lack of flex to a good road shoe. There are differences in the weight etc but again that is the sole and maybe at the high end of things they get closer together but a MTB shoe is typically heavier than the similar model in road.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
what ever you do, DO NOT put SPD MTB cleats on road shoes, this is a bad idea. The MTB cleats are meant to have the support of the side bars found on MTB shoes and are not designed for the flat sole of a road shoe and so they are not optimal and could lead to issues if you are looking at power and performance. But as said above, a really stiff MTB performance shoe should have similar lack of flex to a good road shoe. There are differences in the weight etc but again that is the sole and maybe at the high end of things they get closer together but a MTB shoe is typically heavier than the similar model in road.

Thanks. Good tip. I wasn’t planning to do that but thanks for adding that tip.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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also, I dont think too many road shoes even have the two mounting holes necessary for mtb SPD's anymore
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
what ever you do, DO NOT put SPD MTB cleats on road shoes, this is a bad idea. The MTB cleats are meant to have the support of the side bars found on MTB shoes and are not designed for the flat sole of a road shoe and so they are not optimal and could lead to issues if you are looking at power and performance. But as said above, a really stiff MTB performance shoe should have similar lack of flex to a good road shoe. There are differences in the weight etc but again that is the sole and maybe at the high end of things they get closer together but a MTB shoe is typically heavier than the similar model in road.

The standard crank brothers egg-beaters don't have any extra support from any bars.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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the bars (made of rubber) are on the sole of the shoe not the cleats.... one on each side of the cleat. they provide support for the small cleat. Look at the sole of the mtb shoe.

also related to weight for instance the Giro Empire mtb is about 140 g (I assume per shoe) heavier than the road version so that is rotating mass and this can impact power since you have to move this mass around in circles.....
Last edited by: s5100e: Nov 15, 19 7:27
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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Having looked at a few tests on GCN and other places then I tried, for a lark racing Tri in MB shoes with spd's.

Bear in mind that my power output might at best be half of a true road bikers capability.

MB shoes are easier to walk/run in, so mounting and dismounting is a breeze.
I have always put my shoes on in T1, and Race mounts are faster, because you can do a one pedal, leg over, without slipping.
I regularly run past a bunch of people trying to get mounted or trying to get their feet in after starting clipped in.
In T2 I can stop on the line and hop off while still moving. And don't have to spend the last K untying, taking my feet out and coasting.

sdp pedals are usually 2 sided, so you might even gain a few more seconds clipping in..
I also find they unclip better/faster, so the embarrassing "topple" doesn't happen so often.

Power loss is minimal (if any) I have tried on matching courses to find a difference.

And another bonus is if you have a problem (like a mechanical you can't fix) on an isolated ride you can walk (even jog) on MB shoes.
If manufacturers made a lightweight, (non leather) MB shoe that didn't cost the earth I would buy them in an instant.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "side bars"

Could you explain some more or provide a picture?
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "side bars"

Could you explain some more or provide a picture?
Hi I tried to post a picture of it but it did not seem to upload ... anyhow if you look at say the Giro empire mtb shoe on their site, and then look at the sole there is a raised rubber section that runs along the length of the area where you would attach the cleat to the shoe (along the outer edge of the fore foot of the shoe). These are on either side of the cleat. These are the bars I am referring to. Road shoes are a simple flat sole.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
jaretj wrote:
Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "side bars"

Could you explain some more or provide a picture?

Hi I tried to post a picture of it but it did not seem to upload ... anyhow if you look at say the Giro empire mtb shoe on their site, and then look at the sole there is a raised rubber section that runs along the length of the area where you would attach the cleat to the shoe (along the outer edge of the fore foot of the shoe). These are on either side of the cleat. These are the bars I am referring to. Road shoes are a simple flat sole.

MTB shoes perform quite well after the rubber sidebars have worn away, they are not required for the pedal interface and often have to be cut away to allow the cleat to clip into the pedal.
I have a pair of MTB shoes at the moment with absolutely no rubber left anywhere, it looks like a road sole and it works with the pedals just fine.
The MTB cleats float much freer than road cleats in shimano stuff.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't seen any studies but unless you're counting seconds in a race, I can't imagine there is a huge loss in power.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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The idea that it’s getting dangerous in transition because of slipping has me thinking about mtb shoes also. SPDSL cleats have small rubber pads that are insufficient for any traction, Look cleats are basically ice skates. These cleats are designed for cyclists, not triathletes running with a bike in transition. Don’t know why companies haven’t added a Tri/road cycling shoe with spd recessed cleats.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
The idea that it’s getting dangerous in transition because of slipping has me thinking about mtb shoes also. SPDSL cleats have small rubber pads that are insufficient for any traction, Look cleats are basically ice skates. These cleats are designed for cyclists, not triathletes running with a bike in transition.
Don’t know why companies haven’t added a Tri/road cycling shoe with spd recessed cleats.


Me too
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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I have xtr pedals on my cross bike that now has a set of 303 hoops that I use all of the time on road rides with road tires. As stated above, you need to buy extremely stiff shoes and you will be fine. Don't skimp on mtb/cross shoes.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
jaretj wrote:
Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "side bars"

Could you explain some more or provide a picture?

Hi I tried to post a picture of it but it did not seem to upload ... anyhow if you look at say the Giro empire mtb shoe on their site, and then look at the sole there is a raised rubber section that runs along the length of the area where you would attach the cleat to the shoe (along the outer edge of the fore foot of the shoe). These are on either side of the cleat. These are the bars I am referring to. Road shoes are a simple flat sole.

I use a pair of really old Nike road shoes on the trainer with SPD cleats and pedals (1990s shoes). There's no issue doing that as far as riding. Walking on them is worse than with a regular road cleat though.

I switched to SPD pedals on all my bikes in the early 2000s. I use Shimano pedals as well as generic Nashbar SPDs. The Shimanos are much better in mud, but the Nashbar pedals are fine, especially on the road. I put my shoes on in T1 and do a cross mount going out and a cross dismount coming back into T2. Saves some time.

If you want a road like SPD pedal, Shimano makes several. A good review on CyclingTips for one of them: https://cyclingtips.com/...o-a600-pedal-review/
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [offpiste.reese] [ In reply to ]
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just a note to keep things straight, SPD just stands for Shimano Pedaling Dynamics, so it really references both road and MTB.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [A_Hooligan] [ In reply to ]
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A_Hooligan wrote:
just a note to keep things straight, SPD just stands for Shimano Pedaling Dynamics, so it really references both road and MTB.

I believe the road specific version, with the larger cleat, is SPD-SL.
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:

If manufacturers made a lightweight, (non leather) MB shoe that didn't cost the earth I would buy them in an instant.


I was surfing around Amazon a couple years ago, and found these (Shimano CT71 Click'R) for $39. They were advertised as spin class SPD pedals, but they looked exactly like what I envisioned a perfect SPD tri shoe would be. Man I was right. I've been cycling for 45 years, and these are the best shoes I've ever had. Comfy. I've used them for every race for two seasons now. I put them on, and run through transition in them. I can dismount without worries, and run back to transition. Loose gravel/sand/mud... who cares? They came with great speed laces. I wish now that I would have bought multiple pairs of them. I haven't looked, so I don't even know if they still make them. I'm no speed demon, and I don't do the running mounts etc... but I am our state's USAT 55-59 AG champ, so I'm not a slouch. As mentioned above, I pass a lot of guys in and out of transition, that are trying to copy what the pros do.




Athlinks / Strava
Last edited by: Dean T: Nov 15, 19 14:50
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Nice
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
I second the answer, none.

+1

There have been lots of studies on this.

Here are a couple of the less-rigorous GCN ones that show that clipless road pedals aren't more efficient than sneakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMCYYNTWUY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayafWfQzQQE

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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As others have said, there is little to be lost in efficiency in the pedals themselves, but they are also one part of a more complicated system that starts a bit higher up. It's a matter of where the power is generated (glutes, quads, hamstrings) and where it has to go. A properly aligned system from the knee down will be more efficient that a poorly-aligned system. Well-fitting shoes (right width, not too long, stable heel, good utilization of all surface areas of the foot, etc.) combined with good cleat alignment will be the keys to an efficient overall system.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: How much power loss using spd pedals? [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
Having looked at a few tests on GCN and other places then I tried, for a lark racing Tri in MB shoes with spd's.

Bear in mind that my power output might at best be half of a true road bikers capability.

MB shoes are easier to walk/run in, so mounting and dismounting is a breeze.
I have always put my shoes on in T1, and Race mounts are faster, because you can do a one pedal, leg over, without slipping.
I regularly run past a bunch of people trying to get mounted or trying to get their feet in after starting clipped in.
In T2 I can stop on the line and hop off while still moving. And don't have to spend the last K untying, taking my feet out and coasting.

sdp pedals are usually 2 sided, so you might even gain a few more seconds clipping in..
I also find they unclip better/faster, so the embarrassing "topple" doesn't happen so often.

Power loss is minimal (if any) I have tried on matching courses to find a difference.

And another bonus is if you have a problem (like a mechanical you can't fix) on an isolated ride you can walk (even jog) on MB shoes.
If manufacturers made a lightweight, (non leather) MB shoe that didn't cost the earth I would buy them in an instant.

You're half right. Mtb shoes and pedals have a two-way interface that allow you to clip in on both sides. And you can typically walk in mtb shoes easier than road/tri shoes with protruding cleats.

Otherwise, no. Just no. If you can do a flying mount to get onto your bike, you'll be significantly faster than attempting to clip in on one side then swinging your leg over the bike (& you've got a fair bit of risk that you'll come crashing down on the side you've first clipped into). It's why the itu, xterra, and now half of the long-course pro's - and age groupers - do it. And it's really easy to learn too! Also, with proper off-road tri shoes (or even road tri shoes with a cleat adapter) will allow you to do this kind of mount without having to worry about how you clip in/out with spd-sl cleats
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