Thank you for that, just picked up 2 pair fo the cheapest Hoka's ever!

No he is just being a guy from New England ( I live in NE too) - always suspicious and very traditional. :)!

Hoka is definitely starting to take off in NE. Mike, your local run door has a fair number of people in them. Seems like the tri crowd adopted them first before the ultra crowd. Lots of the ultra crew still loving Inov-8, Salomon. But now starting to see crossover from the tri crowd into the regular run market. And even a few of the old ultra guard starting to make the switch.

The next gen line-up that launches 7/1/14...I don't want to call it a game-changer. But the brand is going to become a lot more accessible. They'll have a much wider range to fit people with. Exciting stuff.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Ok, I've been testing a pair of these out for a little while now.

They are not 'fast' in any stretch as it's quite literally like running on memory foam (or something like that) but they are SUPER cushy and I'd bet running crazy distances in them would feel fantastic.

Most of 2013 has had me hiding from running thanks to a heel that hurts like hell. I got a pair of these Hoka's to try out and they let me run pain free. Mind you I take them off and my heel still hurts so they aren't 'fixing' anything, but they are letting me run.

I have been running on different surfaces road to uneven trail, I thought I'd be rolling my ankle all the time just looking at them and feeling how soft they are. No rolled ankles as of yet. They feel pretty stable.

I'm guessing they are going to break down quicker due to the fact they are as soft as they are.

Bonus: I feel like I could jump off a flight of stairs and get selected for the RedBull Stair jumping championships! BOOM!

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Tim

OMG thank you!!!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Just purchased some HOKAs several weeks ago. The Bondi Bs I believe. Got them in a store, so not sure if they are an earlier 2013 model or not. After 3 runs, I have to give them up. The number one problem of me was the large toe box. So on faster runs, my toes got pretty beat up. And I wanted them to work as I thought they would help with high mileage, long brick workouts, etc. Does anyone know if HOKA makes a shoe with a smaller toe box?

THis very thread talks about the new models coming out that are supposed to have a better fit, smallter toe box etc. read back two or three pages

Right, that would be the Bondi 3 due out next month

what size? I get a larger size to get a larger toe box as the size that fits me is too narrow. :) I hope they widen their toe box, personally. :)

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Great, I will check on the Bondi 3 next month. Most of my problem seems to be less about the width of the toe box, but the amount of "room" between the top of my toes, and the top of the shoe. There was a rather large gap, so on fast runs, intervals, etc. my toes ended up getting slammed up and down so much that it caused problems, sore toes, etc. I have been running in Asics 2000 series for years. I guess I need a more tight fit around my toes to be comfortable. Though I have put my current HOKAs for sale on Ebay, I do not want to give up on the HOKA because with the right fit around the toe area, I think they could work for me. Especially with long course training this year.

I take a 2e or 4e in just about every shoe I wear but found both the Mafate 2 and Bondi to have plenty of width for me.

I noticed they all had them on when I was in the store last month. I tried to buy a pair from our favorite store in Portland but they didn't have my size, been waiting for 5 weeks, so, I just ordered today a discounted pair from Running Warehouse to try. My wife (who you know) tried them and didn't like them, but she is never patient. I am gonna try them because all the therapy in the world (even from Dr. Raymond) over the last 3 years hasn't kept me running without pain in a race scenario. So am gonna try them from the perspective, can I get more miles in, can I get my long runs in....I am a desperate 49 year old who still wants to compete. Hope you are enjoying your new life down south.

Yeah, availability was still an issue later half of the year, particularly for the Bondi in any color besides the relatively hideous unisex blue. Looks like Deckers has really pumped the cash in, so with the Bondi 3, Conquest, and then the 7/1/14 updates everything should have much better availability for stores.

That's a big bummer to hear. I know you've been through a lot. But, to give you some hope: JR (owner of MRC) hadn't run a step in three years due to how bad his knees had gotten. His Stinsons let him run. Period. He's not fast these days, but he doesn't care: he can run.

Things are good! Some fun stuff to announce here in the near future. Still settling in. Still riding outside, which is a big plus.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I run in a size 9 in the Pearl Izumi Streak IIs, which supposedly run small. So I tried an 8 in the Hokas. Barely enough room in the toe and too narrow. I'm trying a 9 in the Hokas and we'll see.

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Chris Harris

Ha, ha! I'm in the same boat. Bondis are the ONLY Hokas that are comfortable for me BECAUSE of the wider toe box. I wear my running shoes loose and I'm a 4E width in most running shoes. Virtually all the other Hokas have narrower toe boxes than the Bondis. Really bummed about the talk that the Bondi 3s might have a narrower toe box!

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

As I've posted in other threads on Hoka, my ankles twist when wearing the Stinson on the trails. In a test run, the Bondi wasn't much better for my ankles.

A shoe with as much cushioning as the Hoka cannot be intrinsically fast. It takes too much time to compress and push off, thereby losing much of the ground reaction force.

"As I've posted in other threads on Hoka, my ankles twist when wearing the Stinson on the trails. In a test run, the Bondi wasn't much better for my ankles."

then i recommend you run in another shoe. and when in the future you follow the yet-to-be-posted hoka threads repeating your dissatisfaction, i'm still going to recommend you run in another shoe.

"A shoe with as much cushioning as the Hoka cannot be intrinsically fast. It takes too much time to compress and push off, thereby losing much of the ground reaction force."

nevertheless, it is intrinsically fast. for me. it is the fastest shoe - for me - in my closet, that i own. when another shoe enters my closet that is faster, i shall report that here. and i have other shoes coming, for which i have high hopes. i can explain to you why you are - in my case - wrong, but you sound as if you've made a decision, and do not care to be influenced by facts not currently in your possession.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You recommended that I try the Bondi, which I did and thus posted my experience (N =1) herewith.

"You recommended that I try the Bondi, which I did and thus posted my experience (N =1) herewith."

you're right. but you're extrapolating to n=everybody in your post as regards the ability of the shoe to run fast. i just don't stipulate to your stipulation.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hmm...My data shows the Stinsons aren't any faster or slower than my Brooks Ghost 6. What I have found wearing the Hoka's is that they are more comfortable, I can run longer, and I can run more frequently during the week due to the extra cushioning. Sorry they didn't work out for you.

True, the first determinant of a shoe's ability to run fast is, of course, the wearer. The second might be how much the shoe improves the wearer's tolerance to the miles of pounding. Example: Nike funded a research project and supplied 2 models of shoes for the runners, high-cushion and low-cushion. The two randomized groups ran against each other, averaging 17+ mi per day for 18 days. Overall finishing time was faster and markers of tissue injury were lower in the high-cushion group.

I don't doubt for one second the veracity or truth behind Dan's post. I absolutely believe Hokas are the fastest shoe for him. I don't know if I can say they are faster for me, but they aren't any slower.

That said, I wonder where those are who have referred to anecdotal evidence such as this as "garbage"? Is it just that Hokas are more widely "accepted" by ST doctrine compared to other products?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Same here.

My fastest HIM and IM runs were done in the Bondi B2 this year and I would consider my one 70.3 and two IM's in 2013 to have been B+ efforts. I'm certain my Newtons, Kinvaras, and Brooks PureFlow were technically faster shoes as they're lighter and assumably more responsive but that's doesn't mean jack if training and racing in them beats me up.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

i am no expert, but i would think the length and topography of the race, the shape of the shoe, where the cushion is placed in the shoe, the durometer of the structure or substance providing the cushion, the velocity we're talking about when we talk about the inherent speed of a shoe, all would be factors.

i was a confirmed brooks adrenaline guy. the "1" thru the 13 or 15 or wherever it was when i bowed out in favor of hokas. one of these iterations had an outsole that was soft, and it was kind of like jelly when i landed. it wasn't the cushioning that was the problem. it was the lateral movement. this is what slowed down the return or response or whatever you want to call it. brooks stopped using that outsole material in later iterations or at least it so seemed to me.

but this issue of lateral motion of the foot, whether in the upper or in the outsole substance, this became an issue to which i paid attention after this experience wearing 2 iterations of the adrenaline that were otherwise almost identical. i think we tend to look at shoe function and movement as a 2-dimensional process when really there's a Z axis that literally takes us, as runners, sideways and slows down this interval between foot plant and push off.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Right. I train in mine, particularly longer runs or if I'm a bit tired. Newtons to race.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank