Hinault doubts Armstrong

Jul 8, 04 14:10

Post #1 of 44 (5948 views)

Something to think about. This should Lance even more motivation.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/.../cycling/3870135.stm

Rider profile: Lance Armstrong Armstrong takes race lead Lance Armstrong's chances of winning a record sixth Tour de France are no more than 50-50, according to fellow five-time winner Bernard Hinault.

Armstrong moved into the yellow jersey on Wednesday after a blistering US Postal team time trial.

But Hinault, who dominated cycling for much of the eighties and is now one of the Tour organisers, is not convinced.

"He's not looked that good this year and everyone saw how he struggled in the mountains last year," said Hinault.

"So I'd say his chances of winning are only 50-50 at best."

Armstrong and Hinault are part of a select quintet to have won global cycling's biggest annual event five times. The others are Eddy Merckx, Jacques Anquetil and Miguel Indurain.

But even if Armstrong wins a sixth, Hinault says he has no right to call himself the best ever.

The Frenchman said: "It's wrong to compare eras. He is at the top of his and I was at the top of mine, as were all the other five-time Tour winners.

"Should Armstrong win six, he will be great. But greater than Merckx, Anquetil or Indurain - I'm not so sure."

Hinault believes the stage is set for a new face to wear the winner's yellow jersey in Paris at the end of July.

He said: "For me, the three key men are Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton and Roberto Heras. And this year's course means they all have a strong chance."

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:14

Post #2 of 44 (5923 views)

"But even if Armstrong wins a sixth, Hinault says he has no right to call himself the best ever."

Damn he's a genius.

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:21

Post #3 of 44 (5883 views)

Interesting. Lance is not the first to really put all his focus in the Tour. Indurain largely did that, peaking for July and before him Lemond peaked mainly for the Tour. Perhaps with a 6th Lance may still not be greater than Hinault and Merckx who won year round, but certainly greater than Indurain. Then again, like in most sports, when you compare the depth and quality of the field now vs the 80's or 70's it is very difficult for a champion in ANY sport today to dominate year round. Look at Tiger Woods or Serena Williams today vs the champions in their respective sports of yesteryear (such as Martina). So if Lance wins a 6th, I'd have to say he is the greatest ever. None of the other came back (in Hinault's own words) from having "one foot in the grave" to having a worldwide impact on cancer victims. This alone should qualify the guy as greatest TdF champion :-).

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:24

Post #4 of 44 (5868 views)

Sounds like the equivlent of a troll. Sounds like a jealous little kid and seems low class to me. Even if you think that, why can't you just say that there are a number of riders who could give him a run and it should be a great tour?

Lance has a life time of beating odds and I would bet on Lance any day

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [5280] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:28

Post #5 of 44 (5842 views)

not to mention that armstrong seems pretty strong so far, and his team especially so. not sure where he gets the notion that he hasn't looked particularly good. excellent prologue and excellent ttt....

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:29

Post #6 of 44 (5836 views)

"Hinault was rude and made enemies easily" -Sam Posey, 2003 Tour de France telecast on OLN.

I love Hinault. He was a flamboyant and incindeary rider.

Doubting Armstrong, on the other hand, looks like a mistake at this point.

87% of CNN.com website viewers polled feel Armstrong will win the Tour de France.

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Last edited by: Tom Demerly: Jul 8, 04 14:35

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:30

Post #7 of 44 (5833 views)

"So if Lance wins a 6th, I'd have to say he is the greatest ever."

Maybe you should have a look at Merckx's palmares again.

No doubt Lance is ONE of the best ever, but THE best is a whole other story.

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:35

Post #8 of 44 (5798 views)

You know how arrogant/cocky Americans paint the sterotype for others in the U.S.?

France gives us Benard Hinault. Who, by the way, the French did not particularly like in his heyday, from what I've read.

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [Michael1982] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:38

Post #9 of 44 (5783 views)

Isn't THE BEST a rather subjective matter? There are so many different kinds of races. How can one say that any particular rider is/was the THE BEST?

It's like comparing Michael Jordan to Kareem Abdul Jabar (the basketball player, not the football player). Totally different game.

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [Michael1982] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:38

Post #10 of 44 (5779 views)

I think my point was in today's world of athletics, year round Merckx style dominance does not happen much anymore, but happened often in all sport in the 70's and 80's. I'm trying to say that perhaps (and only perhaps), the fields are more competitive across the board and it is much tougher for one genetically (both physcially and mentally) athlete to dominate year round, given the better training approaches that everyone in the peleton uses today. Perhaps Eddy's palmares would have not been as stacked if he raced in the late 90's early 2000's. Maybe they would. I don't know. This debate is pretty academic. Right now both Lance and Eddy have won 5 Tours and Eddy has won way more outside of the Tour. IF (and only IF) Lance wins a 6th does this debate really open up. Right now, he is clearly behind Eddy and Bernard. There is no debating that.

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:45

Post #11 of 44 (5757 views)

well isnt the tour de france the big one? if he wins a 6th, why cant he lay claim to being perhaps the best rider ever of the tour de france?

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:51

Post #12 of 44 (5727 views)

This from the guy who promised to help the team mate that helped Hinault win his 5th tour. How does he fulfill that promise, by attacking LeMond every chance he got. Then turning around and saying it was to only make LeMond tougher.

Crap. This sounds more like the same. He wants to stay in the record books as one of those who has won the most tours. Tell him to quit being such a crybaby.

And how hasn't Armstrong looked strong this year? Isn't he up almost a minute to Ullrich, and more to Heras.

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [steveperx] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:52

Post #13 of 44 (5723 views)

I absolutely agree that comparing different time periods doesn's make much sense, because there are way to much variables involved (competition, preparation, etc.).

However, as you mentioned, there are so many different kinds of races; Eddy dominated all those races. Besides all the stage races, he won every single classic (except Paris-Tours ?). Besides that, in Belgium we're also a bit patriotic...

the funny part is [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:54

Post #14 of 44 (5711 views)

Hinault didn't really win five. He won four, then convinced LeMond to let him win the fifth with the promise he would support LeMond the year after (1986). Of course, in 1986 Hinault tried to double-cross LeMond but wasn't strong enough to pull that off. However, it did make for one of the best Tours ever. And remember how Herrera was all of a sudden interesting in working for Hinault, even though he was on another team? That last Tour hinault "won" was ugly.

Gerard.

Last edited by: gerard: Jul 8, 04 15:21

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:57

Post #15 of 44 (5696 views)

Even Eddy Merck said things are much different now and that if he was racing now he would have to train like Lance and focus on key races like the Tour. Having said that I think Eddy is probably best ever, he won whenever he wanted to. Lance is a close second. I would think winning the tour now is harder than in decades past, more competition, more training knowledge and it was primarily a French only event in the past>before the 80's?

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [fulla] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 14:59

Post #16 of 44 (5685 views)

I think he will be the best to ever ride in the tour. Ullrich is a close second. If it wasn't for Armstrong he would the champion everybody is shooting for. He's finished second five times and one it once. As far as Hinault is concerned he is saying that becasue he thinks that he was the greatest. I read somewhere that he even thought he was better than Mercx. Uhhh....no. Mercx was the "greatest" ever, but Lance is nipping at his heels. Lance needs to win the olympics this year if he can. He needs to win a classic or 2 next year, and maybe even do the Giro (and do well), then I think he will the greatest.

Remember, Hinualt won his fifth because Lemond let him. Lemond was clearly the stronger of the two. I miss the days of Claudio Chiapucci.

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:03

Post #17 of 44 (5670 views)

Dev,

Indurain did the Giro-Tour Double TWICE in the 90s. He also raced the Worlds every year that he won the Tour. He took a crack at the Hour Record as well. In short, he displayed more than a singular focus on the Tour.

It might be academic, but I don't think there is any doubt that it's more exciting to look at the palmares of Hinault/Merckx than that of Armstrong (a great rider in his own right).

Lemond did win the Worlds twice, finish 2nd, and finish 3rd. He consistently raced the spring classics and also raced the Giro (albeit slowly).

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the funny part of the funny part is... [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:06

Post #18 of 44 (5659 views)

Lemond didn't really win three. He won two, then his manager convinced the tour direction to let him use an aerobar. I still feel sorry for Fignon...

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:13

Post #19 of 44 (5646 views)

How many Olympic gold medals does Armstrong have?

How many Giro wins?

Giro - Tour doubles?

Vuelta wins?

Hour records?

To say that the level of competition that Indurain won against was worse than Armstrong is wrong, IMO. Vanquished foes competing in their primes included Zulle, Chiapucci, Rominger, Virenque, Bugno, Pantani, Jalabert, etc etc.

Then again... how many World Championships did Big Mig win?

Didn't Merckx win the Tour with a broken jaw one year, unable to eat?

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Re: the funny part of the funny part of the funny part is... [Michael1982] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:20

Post #20 of 44 (5613 views)

LeMond did win three. He won the one he "lost" to Hinault, won the two next ones then lost the one Fignon won. So it evens out for him. So if we rewrite history we have:

Lance 6

Indurain, Anquetil, Merckx 5

Hinault 4

Lemond, Fignon, Bobet 3

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [jasonk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:22

Post #21 of 44 (5603 views)

[reply]Then again... how many World Championships did Big Mig win? [/reply]

Olano's WC was a gift from Indurain. Racing under the same flag, Indurain sat up and refused to chase Olano down for the win lest he drag the chase pack with him.

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Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [jasonk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:23

Post #22 of 44 (5599 views)

Merckx lost the year he broke his jaw - and got seriously kidney punched by a spectator - by around 3 minutes at the end of his career. He also sat out of the Tour one year since he felt people were tired of him winning it. The easy way to summarize his record is he never won Paris-Tours, everything else he did.

How many times has Lance finished the Tour wearing the yellow, green and polka dot jersey? Case closed.

Re: the funny part of the funny part of the funny part is... [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:25

Post #23 of 44 (5597 views)

With this logic, we may have to rewrite history again in two weeks (where Mayo would have won if he didn't lose 3 min in a crash):

Lance, Indurain, Anquetil, Merckx 5

Hinault 4

Lemond, Fignon, Bobet 3

Mayo 1

Re: the funny part of the funny part of the funny part is... [Michael1982] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:26

Post #24 of 44 (5592 views)

Didn't Beloki really win last year?

Re: Hinault doubts Armstrong [bosco] [ In reply to ]

Jul 8, 04 15:26

Post #25 of 44 (5591 views)

Funny, but I agree with him. 50-50 are damn good odds for one rider in the Tour, so much can happen. As far as the best ever crap, that's just a stupid discussion. Kinda like what is or isn't a sport or which sport is the best ever.

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