Well for one thing the Alp is available in clincher, Stinger is not. Alps have the machined aluminum braking surface and the Stinger doesn't. I've also read on this forum that the Stinger is very hard to come by.

[reply]So why would someone buy the Alps?[/reply]
I will probably buy the HED Alps clincher for next season.

What is the difference to the HED Jet?

HED writes for the Alps:
[i]Rim depth is 50mm. Since the rim is stronger than a Jet rim, we can lower the spoke count to 18 front and 24 rear. A lower spoke count is possible, but we like to keep it at 18 and 24 for durability and peace of mind.[/i]

Is this the only difference between the Jet and Alps? Are the HED Jets a good 'cheap' alternative to the Alps?

Felix

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http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

Bump for the daytime crowd. Is there any reason - other than the clincher thing - to go with the Alps over the Stinger?

Or for that fact --- Alps over the Jet???

Please let us know.......

Not IMO. The Stingers use AmClassic hubs, which are nicer than the hubs on the Alps. The Stingers use Sapim CXRay spokes, rather than the lousy Ti spokes on the Alps. If you are confident on a carbon braking surface, which is a big deal, especially in the wet, then the Stingers are the way to go (if you like tubulars). However, remember that the Stingers don't have the Silica braking surface like Zipp's, so braking is a bit touchy. I have a set of Stinger 5.0's, and I love them.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

The difference between Alps and stingers has been accurately covered in the above posts, although I am not sure why you would dislike the Ti spokes in the alps. They are 6/4 ti and very strong, more so than the equivalent weight Sapim spokes, which have to be much thinner to be the same weight.

As for the differencce between Alps and Jets: The two wheels are very similar aerodynamically, but difference in construction is pretty substantial. The Jets are an off the shelf rim with a carbon fairing on them. A fairly easy rim to make, and sturdy but also a little on the chunky side compared to a more complicated wheel. The Alps has a structural carbon section with a lightweight alloy rim cap. It is a much lighter rim and is harder and more costly to make. To the end user, the biggest difference is probably weight. The alps handles slightly better in the wind, since it has a lower rim profile. It is not any slower than the jet though because it has fewer spokes - that is how the two wheels can have different rim profiles but still be so similar aerodynamically.
Andy (I work at Hed)

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Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

Andy,

I just know several people who have broken the Hed Alps spokes, but have never heard of people breaking the Sapim spokes. So based on the industry-wide usage of the Sapim's, I am concluding that they are better. Just an opinion based on experiences with both. I had a set of Alps and got a set of Stingers this past season and like them better.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

How sketchy is the braking on the carbon rim? Do special pads help?

It has changed as I have ridden them. I have ridden them both with Zipp carbon brake blocks & with regular shimano dura-ace10 (whatever comes in the DA10 brakes) pads. Prior to ever riding, I scuffed the braking surface with 220 grit sandpaper.

1st ride out-of-the-box, Zipp blocks, clear conditions: braking was "sticky." The brakes would grab not at all, and then too hard, kind of like jumping along the rim. By the end of the ride, the rim seemed to have "broken in" a little, and it was better, although not absent.

Subsequent rides with Zipp brake blocks - braking continues to be a little bit jumpy/sticky in fair conditions.

In the rain, (heavy showers), with Zipp brake blocks - braking was almost non-existent. I was forced to ride the brakes for extended periods on downhills in order to have any hope of braking. Braking at speeds over 30mph was a test of nerves. But, I did finish the race without incident.

Clear conditions, with Shimano DA10 pads. Upon reading here that people had good success with off-the-shelf shimano pads, I tried this. Braking was much smoother and consistent. However, I don't think it is as good for the hoop, and wear rate on the resin may be increased. As these are my race wheels, I am not too worried, but I would like to know if riding these blocks are okay for the wheels as they are certainly NOT carbon specific pads.

So the great irony is that braking seems to be better with the non-carbon pads. However, the Zipp pads brake better on aluminum rims, so I do prefer to ride with them. You definitely notice switching between aluminum rimmed hoops and the Stingers. You have to be much more careful about planning your braking, entering turns @ speed, etc. with the Stingers, especially on a technical course. That being said, I raced all season without incident on them. But you do have to be prepared for the difference. I'd like to test some other pads to see what happens.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Andyt, I saw a picture of Alps that had the carbon rim at Interbike 2004. Will they be avaiblabe to the public in 2005? If so, any idea of the price?

Thanks,

Rex

I use a Alps clincher on the front for windy conditions and like the wheel. What's really nice is that with a 50mm rim you can use tubes with a 60mm stem. This results in not having to use a valve extender which makes it alot easier to pump up the tire.

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18x Ironman, 3x Hawaii
US Army (Ret.), Vietnam Vet ('71-'72)

Nearly nonexistent braking in rain, grabby braking... yikes. I've been considering this wheel, but this is scaring me off. The rain issue is avoidable to a certain extent by not using a CF rimmed wheel if rain is likely. However, grabby braking seems particularly dangerous on a front wheel as it can lead to going over the handlebars in an emergency braking situation. This happened to me once years ago, when I was still using tubbies for training, and hadn't done a good job of cleaning the glue off the front rim, making it grabby. I had to make an emergency stop, the front wheel locked up and I went over the handlebars, had two dislocated fingers and a separated shoulder.

I'm not elite, I'm not young, and I have a lot of responsibility at home and work, so taking safety chances on my equipment to gain a few seconds is really really low on my list.

I'd like to hear Hed's official position on recommended braking pads and rim prep. For instance, what about the scuffing up the braking surface w/ fine sandpaper? Was this a bad idea?

Thanks Andy for the info.

I've ridden a stinger for a front wheel now for 3 years. Great front with a disc rear. Hard combination to beat for ironman distance.

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MARK MILLER

Official Hed position on scuffing the brake surface ? It is frowned upon. It is just too big a can of worms to open. Scuffing up your brake pads every so often will help. I have used regular road pads on stingers and they have worked fine, but they are are grabbier than the carbon compound pads.

All carbon Alps - I am riding a set now, we may put them into production, they need some more miles and some work on the molds before they are ready to rock. I would not look for them before July, maybe even later. - andy

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Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

Andy,

I emailed Anne and specifically asked her if I should scuff up the rims with fine grit paper, and she told me that it was fine. Just an FYI. It may have even been 300. Certainly nothing coarser than 220.

Re: pads, does that mean it is okay to use my regular Shimano DA10 pads on my Stingers?

Thanks.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I am not saying that 220 grit is going to hurt the rims - I can't see how you could ever do damage with 220 grit, but I don't want to have the official Hed approved rim treatment to be "go ahead and sand the rims". There is no telling where that could lead. An aggressive scratchy pad will work well for deglazing the rims, and won't clog up as fast as sandpaper. Scratchy pads come in grits, like sandpaper. The one we use a lot of here is a 3M pad, light brown. The one where you can see some kind of abrasive in with the fibers, not the dark brown one.
as for pads - I don't know about DA 10. I do know that earlier versions of shimano pads are infamous for soaking up and holding road grit. They are very efficient at sanding your rims down to nothing. My blanket recommendation is "anything but standard shimano pads".
-andy

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Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

Andy, I actually used that maroon/dark brown 3M Scotchbrite pad as well, after a light initial sanding with the 220. I thought it smoothed over the linear scratches from the sandpaper nicely, giving me an even finish on the braking surface. I do have a fair amount of experience working with composites, so I was fairly certain I wouldn't ruin my rims. I agree that it is the best policy to say "no" to sanding. I believe I told Anne I was going to use a fine grit paper. Certainly if you said sanding was okay, somebody would take a 60 grit pad to the wheels...

I'm planning on using the Zipp blocks universally going forward.

Any plans from Hed to release a Zipp-styled "rough" braking surface from the factory.

Also, how will the Carbon Alps differ from the Stinger? Why make both?

Thanks for your posts! Always nice to have input from the source.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp