adamo?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

What if you used your current frame and got a profile design fast forward seat tube?

I think Dan has been a part of the move towards the trend back to fairly steap seat angles. Many of the current bikes out there can get wicked steep(80+) with their adjustable seatposts.

Specialized's Transition with the forward post looks like it could get quite steep, Felt's come right around 79-80 with the stock seatpost, but you can definitely push the saddle more forward, the SC post with the forward most seatpost head is as steep as the Felt as well. I'm sure there are others as well.

You sound like a candidate for Adamo though as Jack pointed out.

I think there were articles here from some time ago that defined a deflection point (somewhere around 80 degrees) where too much forward becomes detrimental to running or decreases bike power or some such. I think most folks, even pros riding very aggressively are limiting at 80 degrees. Is it a fit issue with your bike? Why do you feel you need to ride off the nose of your bike saddle? Is this something better remedied by a different stem or bar?

I recall some frame manufacturer from the 90's making frames based around an 82 or it may have even been an 84 degree seat angle. The name escapes me for the moment. I remember pics of riders on them riding really steep and low in the front. There were probably a few, perhaps Dan or some other old timers with good memories could chime in.

Kevin

http://grigiobikes.com/

Using the Felt forward tri post on a 2007 DA with the saddle pushed all the way forward on the rails gets only to 79 degrees. There is no other way to get any farther forward. If there is another trick I would like to know what it is. Every degree of saddle angle is roughly equal to 1 centimeter and there is nowhere else to go.
As for steeper seat angle frames I seem to remember some Pros in the 80s experimenting with saddle angles up to 90 degrees but it seems that there were diminishing returns and the 78-80 degree range appeared to be the sweet spot for the forward position.

I have a feeling it depends on your bikes size. I remember my 52 gave me a close to 80 degree STA with saddle mid rails, the larger sizes are a little slacker though.

i remember aegis made a very step frame
so i just checked and it is
http://www.aegisbicycles.com/zaero.html

there were some posts a while ago, about the company gone bust etc so better check that out.

Yaqui is only 78 stock but custom is possible i think . TET Cycles
hand-built by Tom Teesdale. He made some of the old Q R frames. Still does the old paint job.

Thom

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

I don't know for sure but what about a beam bike?

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Running is a gift.

HOLLAND Bikes used to make 'em up to 90 degrees. That was in the late 80's and early 90's. I have a Softride and a TitanFlex. Both can go in excess of 80 degrees.

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Habitual line stepper.

Those are nice looking bikes

Ves who makes Yaqui bikes has been building them steep for--well, he said he built them at 85 degrees for the Yugoslavian pursuit team in the late 70s or early 80s if I recall--a long time and built my current bike in 2004 at 81.5 degree seat angle. I currently ride it at exactly 5cm in front of the bottom bracket. It handles perfectly well and has been a solid bike for 7 years. Of course, it's not carbon fiber if that matters to you, but it is pretty much the last bike you will ever buy if you aren't a guy who feels the need to upgrade often. He knows what he is about and his online system of measurement works. One of my measurements was messed up and he contacted me telling me it seemed off and asking me to remeasure. I pulled the frame out of the box, put it together and raced it two days later. Oh, and his paint jobs are beautiful.

Chad

Chad thank you! This is exactly the kind of guy I was hoping was around. I currently ride a 7 year old aluminum P3SL if that answers your question about my need to 'keep up with the Jones''.

I'm going to call him next week and chat with him. So taking my current frame and coordinates is not a part of his process or is it? The only reason I ask is b/c if I could take my P3 and just get maybe 2cm more forward....that is all I would want to change. Actually if someone made a seat clamp adapter or some type to get my VFlow Max a bit more forward that would solve it, but alas I have come up snake eyes and the only other solution I can arrive at is a custom frame.

The reason I am doing this is b/c I went to a midfoot cleat position about 2 years ago to alleviate a chronic Achilles injury. I was about to leave the running/cycling scene until I read what Joe Friehl was doing....huge thing for me. Anyway, with my cleats 42mm back from the ball of foot you can imagine the move forward that necessitated to keep my centered. Hence this thread. I can ride the P3 no prob just as I rode my Dual, but it would just make things 'perfecto' to get a bit more forward.

Thanks for the heads up!

Love my Yaqui mariola. No handed sitting up or bombing down hill .

Thom

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

If either of you Yaqui guys come across one for sale please let me know? I need a 58ish top tube and the steeper the better as in the type Chad has. Thanks guys.

I can't believe that you couldn't get a machine shop to whip up an adaptor for your P3 that would move the seat forward as far as you wanted for a lot less than a Yaqui.

Back in the day, when I only had an old exercise bike as a winter trainer, my Dad and I made one that allowed me to get achieve the same fit coordinates I had on my road bike. (Of course, I figured out later that the exercise bike only had like 140mm cranks!)

Brad

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3SIXTY5cycling.com

Brad

If you have any ideas please feel free to lay it on me. I contacted Gerard directly and he said the had nothing, but that is the only place I could think of.

Anyone have any ideas? Feel free to suggest as I have ZERO desire to go away from the P3SL. Thanks

I'm more of an "idea guy"... ;)

Actually, I'm sure someone with some fancy engineering CAD software could whip something up, but I would think you'd need to replicate the seat mounting "plug" that goes thru the seatpost itself. You would then need an extension that had a similar hole at the end (like the hole in the seatpost). You would then clamp the extension into the seatpost and clamp the seat into the extension. It's clear as a bell inside my head, but I've got no way of putting it down on paper/pixels...

I've thought about the same thing on my bike...
Brad

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3SIXTY5cycling.com

as others have said, many of the new "superbikes" have an uber steep option. the manager at the LBS has a specialized transition with either a zero or forward post with a toupe saddle that gives him a STA of 82. otherwise if you can find them on ebay, you already know about the older QR's. i bought a 7 speed superform with dura-ace for $300 for the windtrainer. holland cycles and hurricane were two smaller builders that made 80+ STA bikes in the 80's. dave greenfield at elite can custom make you one also.

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Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Pushing the seat forward makes the bike handle like crap. it works But.

Thom

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

Technically, Ves does very little custom, but offers like four different geometries so it comes pretty close to the same thing. He has a measurement system that describes in detail how and what he wants you to measure. Then he matches it to a 76, 78 or 80+ degree seat angle set of geometry measurements and determines if you fit. He has so many options that you don't really need to pay the extra $300 for full custom. And he won't recommend it either, unless he feels it is necessary.

The advantage of this system is a perfect fitting bike. I tweaked my position a couple of times over the years and even saw a fitter who really messed me up, and every time I ended up back in the same position Ves had set me up in the beginning. His system sort of contributed to my belief that in-person fitters are overrated if not downright useless in many cases. His bikes are scandium aluminum and pretty much will last you forever. They also handle very well. I've ridden mine in the mountains and can descend on it as fast as I might on a road bike.

The downside is that you are going to lose some speed due to frame aerodynamics. If your P3 is aluminum then it will not be a huge loss since the Yaqui has a similar narrow headtube and aero down tube (26x58mm). From the seat tube back though, the Yaqui has a wider (34mm) non-aero downtube and round seat-post and seat stays. Based off my personal testing I found it to be comparably aero to the aluminum P2. If your P3 is the carbon version then you will be giving up a larger chunk of time (Tom A. found it to be 1.5 to 2 sec per kilometer from P2k to carbon P3).

Enjoy talking with Ves. He can be pretty opinionated at times, but I doubt you could find anyone who knows more about building steep-angled tri bikes. If you really need something custom or close to custom, his bikes are a great option.

Chad

I made a seatpost adapter about 8 years ago for my p2k, it put me about 7cm ahead of the BB. It consisted of a square aluminum piece (1" x 1" and 2" long) that had a cylinder extending down from one end to mate with the cervelo seatpost and a hole in the other end to accept the cervelo seatclamp cylinder. Wasn't too hard to make, cost was about $10.