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Half IM run pacing questions
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Yes, I did a search. Didn't find quite what I was looking for. Here are my 3 q's:

1 - I know from personal experience that I "lose" mebbe 20-30 secs / mile for the run split for Oly's and Sprints vs. my stand alone times. And, I read here recently that for a full IM, it seems that 30++ mins is a typical differential from stand-alone to the IM mary leg. (assuming one runs it, and didn't die on the bike, ate right, hydrated correctly, yada yada yada, or all the other things that can and do happen) Let's call that 70-80 secs / mile. Or possibly a whole lot more...

Would it be fair to say that the differential for a half IM run split vs. half mary would be somewhere in the neighborhood of say 30-45 seconds then perhaps?

2 - Is there a chart somewhere of suggested run HR zones that corresponds to the various Tri run legs? (I'd imagine these ranges would probably be close for the bike too, but I digress) Something like (I'm guessing here): IM = Z2 to low Z3, half IM = Z3 to low Z4, Oly = upper Z3 to Z4+, Sprint = Z4 to lower Z5. Or perhaps as % of LT or Max HR? I thought I read or saw something like this someplace.... possibly in Going Long? I'm trying to gameplan the run for my 2 half IM's this year. Which leads to q #3

3 - ok, so I can do 12m long steady runs (mid-upper Z2) at approx 7:30 pace. I've never done a half Mary, (and don't want to - at least ot prior to my first Half), but, I'd hafta guess I'd be closer to 7min/mile pace, since it is/would be a race after all, not a training run. So, if ya add 30 to 45 seconds back to that (if my guess at Q1 was even close) then we're back to 7:30 to 7:45 pace. Does that sound reasonable? (yeah, I know, it's a hypothetical minus a hypothetical plus a hypothetical figure - sorry, I don't have much of a running background)

Thanks in advance!


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure if there are any charts, but I have personally found no difference in my 1/2 IM run pace versus my stand alone 1/2 marathon pace. In fact, my fastest stand alone 1/2 marathon is about 1:40, but in 1/2 IM's I have done 1:33 and 1:39. I think it had something do do with my cadence being fast on the bike leading to a faster than normal cadence on my run. (or maybe the 1/2 IM courses were marked short).

At the same time in my one Ironman, I slowed way down from my stand alone paces.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Don't overthink it.

Start the run at a steady place until you get into somewhat of a groove. Then up your pace to just below lactate threshold. Maintain and run it it hard the last 2-3 miles.

Pace is so subject to course, conditions, whether you're having a good day or not, etc.

Go old school and use the watch/HR monitor as feedback tools rather than things telling you what to do.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [mts] [ In reply to ]
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<< Don't overthink it. >>

As I lack experience (at running in particular), I tend to do this. A lot.



Surprizingly, I never have worn a HRM during a Tri before. (I actually rarely even wear one on the bike, period. On the trainer, it alleviates the boredom; and for running it gives me something to gauge my effort) But - they were Olys and Sprints, so the "cost" of going too hard wasn't nearly what it will possibly be in a longer race.

Thanks for the feedback.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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My experience has been my steady long run pace is about the same as my 1/2 IM run pace but the big variable for me has been heat and eating enough early enough on the bike. I doubled the number of calories on the bike leg in my last 1/2 last year and finished off the food sooner and ran much better.

my tri run leg hr's from last year:

sprint 170-184, 6:30 pace,

oly 165-178, 7:00 pace.

1/2IM 150-165, 8:00 pace.

my TT tested LT is 172.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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A ballpark figure would be to expect to run a half IM run split at the pace of your open marathon. On an equivalent course, many reasonably fit people do a half IM run only about 4-5 minutes off an open half marathon. I have hit that range as both a complete novice (running 2:02 in a flat half IM in 2002) and with more experience (running 1:42 in a hilly half IM run in 2004).

If you are doing long steady (not "easy") runs at 7:30, I'd say you might be going at 7:00 or so in the half IM. Maybe better than that if you're in good bike shape.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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You should check out the pacing tips on Gordo Byrns website. http://www.byrn.org/gtips/halfpace.htm I'm on my mac so I can't post a real link. He has some great pacing advice for your first half. I followed it and had a great first half IM. I think if you can run 7:30 in Zone 2 you should have no problem keeping close to a 7min pace. Just make sure you don't go out too fast on the swim or bike. Especially the first half of the bike. If you pace it right by the time you get to the run if you are doing a 7 min pace you'll feel great cuz you'll be passing a lot of people who will look like they are suffering.
Good Luck
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with a lot of what was said above. The key is bike hydration and nutrition. You can get off the bike feeling great, and the 13-mile run is not so long that you have to slow down or pace yourself to finsih it. You can screw up your nutrition and hydration, like I did in my first 1/2 IM, and run a 2:40. Also, make sure you run for 20-40 minutes after every long ride.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [TriRocker] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks all for the input!

TriRocker - GREAT link, perfect. Added to my Favorites.

I consulted Going Long, and also got their input (albeit in a roundabout way) - there's a listing of CP levels (for bike power) and corresponding RPE levels, then on another page there are HR levels and RPE levels - so I cross-refenced 'em, and it was pretty much as I guessed - they suggest Z3 to mebbe lower Z4 for a Half IM pacing (for the bike, but that would work for the run too, I'm sure)

Ash - if I ran anywhere close to 7:00 for any part of the half IM run leg I'd be stoked. I've got good bike fitness in general, just not much bike endurance yet - the long rides are to come over the next 4-8 weeks. (I do a MM-esque 'reverse pyramid' - build speed and power in the winter, then add endurnace come springtime. I just can't do the mega trainer rides.... no mas.)

Agreed that not being stupid on the bike (at the beginning in particular) and eating and hydrating enuff will be key. That will be hard for me, I'm all about the bike, but I need to remember that the race isn't - it's all about coming off the bike w/ enough juice to run reasonbly well.

Thanks again all! I now have a better idea of what to shoot for.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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purely anecdotal, but:



best 1/2 mara = 1:35:35.

Next year, ran 3, harder courses - 1:38, 1:40, 1:42.

First 1/2 IM (same year) 1:55ish.



Last year: fastest standalone : 1:39

1/2 IM: 1:47

i'm hoping that as i get faster on the run, that there will be less difference between the two, but there is definitly a marked difference. So i guess somewhere in the range of 10-20 minutes....?





again...purely anectodal evidence




"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Jon] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, you beat me! In my first 1/2IM, I ran a 2:46, 9 minutes slower than my bike time! It really is all about finishing the bike with energy.

-C

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Jon] [ In reply to ]
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Not to sound negative, but if your stand-alone 1/2 Marathon time and your 1/2 IM run split time are the same, then something is amiss. Of course, courses are different AND triathlon runs of all lengths are notorious for being inaccurate( read:short), you need to take that info with a grain of salt.

That being said, for a fit triathlete with reasonably good running fitness, your 1/2 IM running pace should be similar to your standalone marathon pace. ie, if your best standalone marathon is 3:00, or 7:00 min/mile, then your 1/2 IM run pace should be close to this with a goal time of about 1:30, all things being considered. Note that this should be about 30 - 40 sec/mile slower than your best standalone 1/2 marathon pace.

All this being said, you don't often see this sort of range of pace in many recreational runners and triathletes. My feeling on this is simple - they don't spend enough time running at these different paces. Most of their running is ALL done at close to the same pace.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Half IM run pacing questions [Ashburn] [ In reply to ]
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Rick,

Agreed. I posted up below but had not seen your post. Seems we are on the same wavelength.

My best standalone 1/2 Marathon's were in the 1:12 - 1:13 range when I was in top triathlon shape. My best 1/2 IM run splits were in the 1:18 - 1:20 range( 6 min/mile), so 6 -7 minute differential and this was almost eactly my best marathon effort while in the same level of fitness - 2:40.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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