Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change

Jun 19, 18 9:34

Post #1 of 23 (3805 views)

I'm looking for some advice because I've had what feels like a downturn in my training over the past month and I'd like to get things back on track for IMMT in August.

The tl;dr version is basically the subject line: I've had a solid, consistent build since last November but over the past 4-5 weeks I've been feeling increasingly weak, achy, and fragile, and I'm trying to figure out a good approach for righting this ship as I put in one more build toward IMMT 8.5 weeks away.

The more detailed version: since my last race of last season (an open half in October) my focus has been on consistency. For running I started the BarryP program, swimming I did the Guppy challenge, biking I followed a medium volume TR base and build plan, and I followed an ECFit strength program. This worked out to roughly 10 hours/week Nov-Jan building slowly up to 13 hours/week Feb-May. I can give all the details anyone's interested in as far as mpw running or TSS/week or whatever, but the bottom line is I was putting in consistent work, building up slowly and progressively with no outlier huge weeks or outlier low weeks. In keeping with the BarryP program I wasn't doing speed work but still ended up running well (for me) in a local 10-mile road race in April and even managed a 3rd place overall (out of >700) at a hilly 5K in May. Basically, training was going well and I was feeling fit and ready for most every workout.

A few weeks ago I dialed it back a bit heading in to my first Oly of the season, and that's when I started to feel like crap – weak, achy, and generally fragile. I've had a few good sessions over the past couple weeks but I don't feel fit and ready for workouts the way I had been feeling thoughout my build. This is despite taking the last week somewhat easy and this week even easier because I'm doing IMMT 70.3 on Sunday (recon for August). I hope to use the IMMT 70.3 to get a feel for the course and practice pacing, recover a few days after the race, and then I'd like to get in a solid build toward the full. My overall training is up from last year but not by much. I'm pretty sure it's not burn out because I would love to be putting in more work, but with how I've been feeling this past month I'm worried it could do more harm than good.

So, anyone had a similar experience where you've come off a good base/build only to start feeling like crap when race season actually starts? Any recommendations for turning things around?

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 10:31

Post #2 of 23 (3752 views)

Yes, I had similar experience. Last winter training cycle before a March marathon was screwed up. I was half a minute slower that PR on an easy net downhill course of Napa Valley Marathon. PR was hilly Rock-n-roll DC with brutal cold winds.

I found so far no secret recipes or solutions. This is how life and success supposed to work. Sometimes you have headwinds. Dial down and stronger workouts will come back. So far my spring cycle is going much better, made a series of PRs on the usual strava segments, ready for White Mountains Tri (half distance) this weekend.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 10:50

Post #3 of 23 (3722 views)

I'm pretty much in the same boat.. I'm at week 8 of the TR Mid-Volume plan leading up to IMMT.

Personally, I chalk up the fatigue right now to 20 hours of training last week. This week is pretty mellow training-wise, I'm also doing the White Mountains 1/2 this Saturday.

With the speciality phase starting next week, I'm going to make sure I am getting enough calories and sleep.

I'm also a proponent of Hammer Nutrition.. I'm taking a few vitamins/supplements from them and so far have been quite healthy this year with decent energy levels.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 11:56

Post #4 of 23 (3645 views)

ask77nl wrote:

Yes, I had similar experience. Last winter training cycle before a March marathon was screwed up.

I assume you mean the winter training cycle was good but the March marathon was screwed up, right?

I managed to do ok in my Olympic earlier this month (USAT score of 97.2, if you think those numbers mean anything) despite coming in to the race feeling crappy with knee and hip pain. I'm hoping I bounce back with some rest this week so I feel better at the 1/2 this weekend and can move on confidently into a build through July. I'm just surprised I haven't been able to bounce back already since the last couple weeks haven't been as intense and what I had been doing.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 12:17

Post #5 of 23 (3611 views)

Northy wrote:

ask77nl wrote:

Yes, I had similar experience. Last winter training cycle before a March marathon was screwed up.

I assume you mean the winter training cycle was good but the March marathon was screwed up, right?

I managed to do ok in my Olympic earlier this month (USAT score of 97.2, if you think those numbers mean anything) despite coming in to the race feeling crappy with knee and hip pain. I'm hoping I bounce back with some rest this week so I feel better at the 1/2 this weekend and can move on confidently into a build through July. I'm just surprised I haven't been able to bounce back already since the last couple weeks haven't been as intense and what I had been doing.

It was more similar to what you're describing. Last month of the training cycle was screwed up and the resulting race as well. The decrease in performance was may be 4-5 weeks in total. But I bounced up.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [alexanderzlenz] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 12:25

Post #6 of 23 (3587 views)

alexanderzlenz wrote:

I'm pretty much in the same boat.. I'm at week 8 of the TR Mid-Volume plan leading up to IMMT.

The last week where I actually felt good was the week I finished the TR build plan. Since then I've moved to riding outdoors.

My current thinking has been to keep all but one or two days per week on the easy side. The hard days would be one quality bike (e.g. the Tuesday ride of the TR mid-volume specialty plan) and one race simulation ride outside (full race set up and nutrition plan with a run off the bike). I'd keep run mileage up but keep almost everything at an easy pace so I don't build too much fatigue. Swimming is my weakest link, so my plan is to simply make sure I keep getting in to water. I doubt I'll make big speed gains in swimming over the next 8 weeks, but if I can get out of the water fresher then I'll consider that a win.

If I'm still feeling beat up and weak these next couple weeks would the consensus be to focus more on building endurance with a greater volume at easy effort, or keeping volume around the current 13-15 hr/week while working in some quality/faster rides and maybe runs?

It might be worth noting I've done ok on the lower end of volume in the past, e.g. high 4:20s in 70.3 off 9-10 hours/week, 1:25 open half marathon off 20 mpw.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 12:37

Post #7 of 23 (3555 views)

Not changing the topic but how's your nutrition?

Mine is decent but I'm not an angel. 2016 for my first IM I was bone-tired for all of my training leading up to the race. Primarily it was due to not eating enough of the right calories.

This year my volumes are way up, I'm eating/fueling more effectively and I'm taking vitamins/supplements to fill any gaps. My fatigue levels are nowhere near as high as they were last time around.

I'm pooped right now because last week was my highest training volume thus far..

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [alexanderzlenz] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 13:22

Post #8 of 23 (3491 views)

That's not changing the topic at all, can't get through IM racing or training without paying attention to nutrition.

Overall I'd say my nutrition is pretty good, at least in terms of what I choose to eat. My wife would probably say I'm obsessive about it because I rarely drink (<1/week) and I might have a dessert once every few months or so (special occasions like one of our kid's birthdays or a friend's wedding). My take is, why bother eating junk if I have the option of eating a healthy meal or snack?

That said, there's a chance I haven't been eating enough in total. My weight had been pretty stable overall but has dropped slowly over the past 3-4 months. Nothing drastic, only down about 6-7 lbs. I've generally thought a little weight loss isn't bad and could be beneficial (I'm 6'2" and about 172 lbs now) but if I was feeling stronger and better prepared for my workouts at 178-179 lbs than I am currently then maybe I should be eating more.

I'm generally skeptical of vitamins/supplements, but I'd be interested in hearing what you think has been helpful for you. Thanks for the help!

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 13:36

Post #9 of 23 (3463 views)

Did it coincide with pollen season? Your symptoms sound a bit like mild allergy that I had. No sneezing or eyes burning but achy weak and bit irritable. For me in holland it happens each year about end march or end September... And I know its that season because my sugar and coffee cravings go up, want to sleep less, and feel less sleepy. That's all adrenaline related reactions... The key for me was to take a antihistamine and avoid sugar (including juices) and extra coffee those weeks and then your body can rest up and feel right again. The reason I asked is because this year was pretty warm and there seemed to be a second pollen wave a month ago.

If it sounds like a possibility you can pm me and I'll send more info and links about it

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 15:27

Post #10 of 23 (3396 views)

Quote:

no outlier huge weeks or outlier low weeks.

No recovery weeks? Or is a recovery week not an outlier low week?

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 16:58

Post #11 of 23 (3349 views)

I'm just a roadie so don't kill me for asking but, is a 9 month build/peak normal for triathletes? It sounds like a recipe for burn out/fatigue if not very careful. If it is mad respect for you guys! Damn!

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 17:28

Post #12 of 23 (3313 views)

I've been skeptical of vitamins/supplements forever but Hammer has helped me quite a bit:

https://www.hammernutrition.com/products/fueling-kits/daily-essentials-kit-plus/ I take this daily during training season, this is the first year I've done so and so far great results.

I also use Hammer Recoverite quite religiously after each workout longer than 1.5 hours.

Not trying to sound like a commercial for them but I feel that the incorporation of their products into my daily nutrition has been beneficial.

I've lost about 6 pounds since February but my body composition has changed quite a bit. I'm also eating over 3000 calories per day right now too.. I find that I get quite fatigued when I'm under 2500 and still trying to train.

Finally, processed sugars and high carb things haven't been too friendly to me energy-wise. I've been trying to go for a 40/30/30 split with Protein/Fats/Carbs with modest success.

Also to the other poster - 9 months training split into 3 phases - 1. Base 2. Build 3. Specialty. 12 weeks, 8 weeks, 8 weeks. Each one has built in recovery weeks.. essentially 3 week ramp-up, 1 week week recovery, repeat.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [TriStart] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 17:52

Post #13 of 23 (3292 views)

TriStart wrote:

Quote:

no outlier huge weeks or outlier low weeks.

No recovery weeks? Or is a recovery week not an outlier low week?

Recovery weeks yes, just none that I would say are huge outliers. Most of my lower volume/intensity weeks have been timed around family trips or other travel. This week is shaping up to be my lowest volume and most recovery of the year, at least until Sunday.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 18:24

Post #14 of 23 (3255 views)

Quote:

Nothing drastic, only down about 6-7 lbs. I've generally thought a little weight loss isn't bad and could be beneficial (I'm 6'2" and about 172 lbs now) but if I was feeling stronger and better prepared for my workouts at 178-179 lbs than I am currently then maybe I should be eating more.

FWIW:

Certainly an individual response to this drop, but there may be something there. Have you been down at this weight before and performed well?

I am your height and found when I was exclusively running I could dip into the 160's and perform well/best. With tri training, I find that there is a performance plateau or decline as well as feeling flat are more often experience with these dips and I do best around 175. I think the recovery process of training 3 sports (hours) gets a little more challenging when you are leaning out.

It is also possible that an accommodation will happen with time training at this weight and you have just hit a temporary barrier. This is not to mention all the other things like diet, sleep...

I was always hung on race weight as a pure runner going for a PR time, but with long distance triathlons I let the training markers do the dictating and make a point to try and stay close to even in last 8 weeks as late weight loss has also left me flat on race day.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 19, 18 18:41

Post #15 of 23 (3236 views)

Northy wrote:

I'm trying to figure out a good approach for righting this ship as I put in one more build toward IMMT 8.5 weeks away.

IMO there is zero downside to taking a full week off. No exercise beyond simple stretching and strolling (no hiking). Eat well, drink plenty of water, get plenty of sleep. Look into nutrition and get a blood test.

Then build up slowly to where you currently are in intensity/volume before tapering for the race.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 3:18

Post #16 of 23 (3074 views)

I have to agree here. Training for my first Ironman this summer on the back of mainly being a runner and shorter distance triathlons.

While I really like TrainingPeaks I think the ATP can create anxiety around missing out and messing up the system. I had a fantastic run of training to the extent where I actually felt like Superman, but then got knocked by a minor bout of man flu followed by a pretty nasty viral cold that killed a week of training and affected the following week. This also coincided with some shoulder tendinitis - coincidence? Who knows.

I have managed the hit to my training by focusing on getting the key sessions Joe Friel identifies for the build period done and letting other things go if necessary. There is much more to lose at this stage than there is to gain and using heartrate can be a great indicator of a day where it’s just not worth digging yourself into a hole. If I am supposed to ride on a day where I don’t feel 100% I just go out and ride my road bike until I feel I’m done without looking at numbers. If I’m supposed to run I go for a trail run somewhere pretty and walk where I feel like it.

The result of managing the fatigue in this way was a great result in a 70.3 tune up race where I had a great swim, hit the numbers on the ride and then had a best ever off the bike run. Is this luck or strategy? Don’t know but it has worked for me.

Keep your chin up and as people say make sure you’re eating well and sleeping as much as possible. Fretting will create additional anxiety. There is something nice about using your fitness to just go for a swim, a ride or a run without it having to be something more.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [woodys737] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 6:05

Post #17 of 23 (2945 views)

woodys737 wrote:

I'm just a roadie so don't kill me for asking but, is a 9 month build/peak normal for triathletes? It sounds like a recipe for burn out/fatigue if not very careful. If it is mad respect for you guys! Damn!

Yep, that's what we often plan. Triathlon attracts obsessive A-type personalities.

Wether our bodies can actually handle that - that's a different question. :)

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 6:46

Post #18 of 23 (2909 views)

are your blood tests ok?

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 6:57

Post #19 of 23 (2890 views)

Blood test is a good call. Your body is telling you something. It could be a simple solution and a blood test will help identify that.

Also, try scaling up your caloric intake significantly for a couple weeks. I was pretty surprised exactly how much I needed to eat building for a full. If you do that for a few weeks and feel no different then you will know that it is not the amount you are eating without any harm.

Just my opionion. I'm no medical professional or coach.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 7:22

Post #20 of 23 (2867 views)

No recent blood tests but I do have an annual exam next Monday, so I'll ask then.

Also planning to bump up overall calories to see if that helps.

Most of the recent issues are more specific aches, pains, and weakness, mostly in my back and hips, rather than an overall feeling of being drained. This afternoon I'm going to see a chiro who does active release and soft tissue work. We'll see.

Certainly no loss of motivation though. If my body was feeling good and strong I would be more than happy to put in more work.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 7:45

Post #21 of 23 (2843 views)

How is your core strength? Usually, when I get pain in the back and hips, its a result of my core not being strong enough to support them for as long as I am asking it to. When the core goes, the pressure falls on the back and hips.

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 8:21

Post #22 of 23 (2818 views)

In the past, this is typically a sign of under-fueling for me. Off-season, I'll loose a few pounds then I strive to keep my weight pretty level during a build. Maybe revisiting your overall intake (CHO = 6-10gm/kg and Pro 1.2-1.5gm/kg) would be helpful?

Re: Had a great build, now feel like crap, thoughts on what to change [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 18 9:25

Post #23 of 23 (2314 views)

I pm'd you a while back on this topic. If you get a chance, I would appreciate any feedback you have as I am continuing to struggle with allergies every summer here in the midwest with symptoms very similar to what you describe.

"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne

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