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HR stuff - Q
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due to the crash at IM France, I was not able to train much if at all since june 21st...did something like 5 sessions total, all very short.

after a 4 week break, what is the typical HR differential you see, say at
8'/mi what HR difference do you see?

asking because, I have been doing some tests (had quite a lot of skipped beats this week), and today, my HR was literally through the roof, like 30-40 beats higher...did a echocardiogram friday, a holter monitor (results next week) and a stress test monday and getting pretty worried about it.
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Re: HR stuff - Q [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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(Insert the usual disclaimer about receiving medical advice over the internet. I'm not worried about telling you what I'm about to tell you, because I trust you are under a competant physician's care, and are following that physician's recommendations solely, and that you'll use any information given to you here as just that...information, not medical advice that you should follow.)

It doesn't sound that unusual to me, Francois. Neither the high HR, nor the "skipped beats" after decreasing training so much. There is a theory, at least among local cardiologists, that people with very high exercise levels tend to have a larger left atrium. As the athlete either gets dehydrated (see ultra-endurance races, and the number of people that get arrhythmias) or decreases training volume severely, the enlarged Left Atruim decreases in volume and therefore, size. The more tightly bunched cells tend to be more irritable as they get closer to one another, and arrhythmias follow.

Atrial fibrillation is one of the potential problems...and is debilitating to many high level athletes. It can also be dangerous due to clot formation in the atria, which can then embolize.

If you just feel a few "skipped beats", that's not A-fib. It's probably just Premature Atrial Contractions, or, PAC's. Very common, especially in young people, especially when combined with dehydration, or in athletes with greatly decreased training volume, and in those with stimulant useage (such as caffeine). Until you find out exactly what is going on (and you may not...there's no guarantee your tests will be definitive), avoid caffiene entirely, as well as any other stimulants, and try and get as much rest as you can. If I were you, and I am not, I would take an aspirin tablet or two each day until I got my results...it makes the clotting mechanism a little less effective, i.e., one will bleed more if one gets a cut, but it's cheap insurance that will increase the amount of time that A-fib could be withstood before a potentially harmful clot were to form.

Unless advised otherwise by your doctor, you should be able to do some training. If you get a very rapid irregular HR, that is probably A-fib, and it needs attention quickly as mentioned above, but, it won't kill you!

Most of the time, nothing bad is found in people in your situation. However, you are doing the prudent thing by being checked out. Try and chill out, you're probably fine, and responding in a not-uncommon way to the situation in which you are describing.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: HR stuff - Q [yaquicarbo] [ In reply to ]
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Question for you...I am really not asking medical advice but knowledge. Today did a sprint tri and had to stop(I am 43)my HR went to 232.This has happened on and off since 15.Every time I have gone to a Doctor they just say"Unless it happens here,we can not tell you.They have hooked me up to EKG'S ect.. And say nothing is wrong. One said it could be adrenilin surges. It usually goes away in three to five minutes. I would of took my first first place today,ended up in second.Might happen twice in a week then not again for 8 months. I hold my breath and bear down a few times and my heart goes boom once and everything is OK. Happened on the swim today after 5 min on the bike,jumped off within 4 min everthing fine and raced the remainder.Ever heard of this? Thanks Kenney
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Not medical advice but my experience [ In reply to ]
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2 years or so ago I started to experience really exceptionally high HR's.

It would jump while running from 150 to 240 or when stationary and watching TV up to more than 240.

Anyway told my Docs and they said the same thing no ECG probably panic attacks.

So one sat it happened I walked over the road to the ER, girl asked what the problem was and I said I thought my HR was a little high, she asked how high, I said more than 250 and she gave that "dont waste my time look" as she took my pulse and immediately panicked.

Turns out it was PSVT which is a bad pathway between the SV?/AV? nodes in the heart causing it to beat way to fast, this was then documented by a Holter monitor where it occured several times in 24 hours and I did not notice it once.

So it had been going on and I had no idea. If it happens to you take your self down to your ER and see if you can get an ECG.

Whilst there they noticed skipped beats and PAC's?????? but said all that other than the PSVT was normal and common.
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Re: Not medical advice but my experience [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Andrew. This has been happening for 30 years and I have gotten used to it. I once did the Beartooth run(8 miles from 6000ft to 8000) while this was happening. My wife made me promise that I stop till it goes back to normal. I am aware of exactly when it starts and when it stops.I have freaked people out when its happened by having them look at my shirt. I am not looking for medical advice(my disclaimer)just curious on if anyone has heard of this. By the way how is your recovery going. Hope you can return soon...Thanks Kenney
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Re: HR stuff - Q [yaquicarbo] [ In reply to ]
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the thing is that I actually had an A-Fib last year...
after a long session (6h), I was sitting on the ground doing nothing but drinking a big coke, probably a bit dehydrated, on a really hot day and my heart starting jumping from 40 to 160 back to 40 etc...for 6hrs, went to the ER, and it reversed alone...
the cardiologist said, it would probably not occur anymore, but then I tend to be very worried with my heart now...

I ran this morning, starting around 7'/mi and after 3', the HR was litterally through the roof at 160 or so!!! (usually 130), dropped to 8'/mi and still at 155bpm, wouldn't go down.

I just swam, and the HR is jumping quite bit (just some skipped beats, but quite often, maybe had 10 in the last 1h).
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Re: HR stuff - Q [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, non-perfect heart rhythms are more common than you realize. There are several types of arhythmias, or dysrhythmias as they are becoming known, that can happen in otherwise normal hearts. Some of them are dangerous, some are benign. Some of the benign ones can be dangerous if allowed to go on too long. Many are treatable with good hydration and abscence of stimulants. Some continue despite maximal drug therapy and invasive proceedures are used to try and correct the problem...depending upon what the problem is, if it is even found. It's always best to get it checked, you don't want to mess around with something that can be serious. All that said, if you are told by a cardiologist that considers your status as an athlete, then it isn't serious and you just have to live with it. Not all of these things are really bad to have.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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A huge proviso here [ In reply to ]
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Everyone is different and I know nothing at all about causes or treatments other than what I experienced.

I would suggest that you attempt to see a specialist. I saw initially a Cardiologist and then an electrophysiologist??????? (I honestly cant remember) and they looked at the ECG that documented the problem and offered two treatments and three options.

Drugs

Procedure

Do nothing (not really a viable option but one none the less)

I opted for 2 as I could always do one and it was successful.

Get more opinions if you are concerned.

A
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