Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive

Oct 17, 23 10:06

Post #1 of 21 (2508 views)

hi folks,

I have had Garmin watches for at least 6 years and I am getting readings that I've never seen before and wanted to see if this has happened to anybody else.

Things were normal through the summer and after taking a 3 week end of season break in September I did a local 10k race where I pushed hard and was within a few seconds of a PB (at age 55).

For the following week my watch was giving me a training status of 'strained' even though I was doing easy training. I decided to take heed of the readings and took 3 days off completely before restarting a pretty easy block of post-season work.

Since then the training status has ranged between strained and unproductive each workout. I did an easy 7 mile Z2 run on Sunday and was advised to rest for 72 hours which is what I normally get after a 70.3 race. All very strange.

I feel 100% so doubt this is a low grade sickness that is manifesting in the readings. All other metrics (resting hr, sleep quality etc.) are normal.

Basically, has anybody else had reading like this and did they foretell anything significant. Or, should stop stressing about the readings and carry on normally?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:15

Post #2 of 21 (2489 views)

A couple weeks ago I couldn’t access Garmin Connect for 36-48 hours. Things finally loaded and I was able to connect my devices again, but on the following days 50 minute run I did caused my watch my watch to tell me I set mile, 5k, and 10k PRs and that my 10.8k run was the longest run I’ve recorded.

I don’t use Garmin metrics for anything, but given the timing of that in comparison to yours, it seems there may have been some form of reset/something else on Garmins end that screwed several people’s history up.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:17

Post #3 of 21 (2484 views)

I have that issue to with my 530. On Garmin connect and on Strava both do not always agree on the intensity of the ride.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:17

Post #4 of 21 (2484 views)

Two things . . .

1. If you feel fine and are performing normally then ignore the watch.

2. The watch and/or app will give you a more detailed breakdown of why it wants you to rest. It rates your most recent sleep, recovery time from prior training, hrv status, sleep history, and some sort of stress history. You can look at these in more detail and come to your own conclusion about whether the watch is onto something.

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:29

Post #5 of 21 (2466 views)

Which watch?

There's some pretty big differences between how a Fenix 6 and prior watch works (or FR945/etc), compared to a Fenix 7 and newer watch (or FR955/965), in this specific department. Essentially Garmin split apart the unproductive/strained warnings to make them more clear as to the root cause, while also balancing them out a bit more if your HRV/sleep/stress/etc values were maintained.

In earlier watches, it was easier to get into that strained/unproductive state than it is in newer watches. I'd argue that 90%+ of the time in newer watches, if you're living in that strained/unproductive state for more than a few days (really a week max), the Garmin is probably right. The exceptions are when the VO2Max value is detected as too low compard to reality, then you get into all sorts of wonk (as happened to me for most of last winter/spring). There's no easy fix for that. But if the VO2max is viable, then typically the unproductive will really only happen after a massive volume surge following a break (since it's essentially comparing to previous 4-week window).

-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:39

Post #6 of 21 (2448 views)

Training on the Vasa Ergometer has caused issues for me re:unproductive/strained status.

There's no native Vasa algorithm in the Garmin ecosphere (that I know of), so it comes down to using either the Indoor Bike or Rowing settings for recording power/distance.

Both of these leave much to be desired, as putting out 50 to 70 watts @ 120 bpm, makes the Garmin think you're either tired or dead. ;)

Team Kiwami
Instagram

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:43

Post #7 of 21 (2441 views)

My Garmin has been crazy for the last several weeks. I sleep well, have good workouts, keep up with my training plan and it says I’m detraining, straining, and everything in between except productive. It’s annoying.

EDIT - Epix Gen 2 and an update ran last week. Don’t remember which version, but these problems predate that update.

Last edited by: thin_concrete: Oct 17, 23 10:45

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [thin_concrete] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:52

Post #8 of 21 (2420 views)

With an Epix Gen 2, it'll literally say why you're in the unproductive/etc state, if you tap the upper right button. It's pretty clear about what's causing it.

-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 10:54

Post #9 of 21 (2414 views)

dcrainmaker wrote:

In earlier watches, it was easier to get into that strained/unproductive state than it is in newer watches. I'd argue that 90%+ of the time in newer watches, if you're living in that strained/unproductive state for more than a few days (really a week max), the Garmin is probably right.

That's been my experience as well with the 955.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 11:31

Post #10 of 21 (2347 views)

Check if your max heart rate and HR zones got shifted. I once improperly saved out of a workout on my watch and the HRM strap that was hanging up to dry was sending a 230BPM signal to my watch for over an hour. Stupid thing adjusted my max HR and all my HR zones. Worst thing is it thought it knew better than I do and would keep overriding my override for like a month whenever I did a workout.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 11:41

Post #11 of 21 (2335 views)

I've got the Forerunner 965 and it's forever telling me not to train, it's down to my poor sleep pattern I'm guessing.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 12:05

Post #12 of 21 (2301 views)

Not sure if it's related but I've been watching my HRV Status drop for the last couple of months. I've got a FR955.

I did get covid in mid July though. My HRV stayed up closer to normal (maybe a bit low) for the first month, but has been quite low the last 2 months.

More history, my first bout of covid I caught in April of '22 took me until mid August to feel "normal" again. This is about when I got the watch. I suppose my HRV Status could have been dropped after that round too. Who knows.

Anyway, it's been a bit frustrating watching it slowly drop lately. Kinda hoping it's the tech and not me! ;-)

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 12:08

Post #13 of 21 (2295 views)

dcrainmaker wrote:

Which watch?

There's some pretty big differences between how a Fenix 6 and prior watch works (or FR945/etc), compared to a Fenix 7 and newer watch (or FR955/965), in this specific department. Essentially Garmin split apart the unproductive/strained warnings to make them more clear as to the root cause, while also balancing them out a bit more if your HRV/sleep/stress/etc values were maintained.

In earlier watches, it was easier to get into that strained/unproductive state than it is in newer watches. I'd argue that 90%+ of the time in newer watches, if you're living in that strained/unproductive state for more than a few days (really a week max), the Garmin is probably right. The exceptions are when the VO2Max value is detected as too low compard to reality, then you get into all sorts of wonk (as happened to me for most of last winter/spring). There's no easy fix for that. But if the VO2max is viable, then typically the unproductive will really only happen after a massive volume surge following a break (since it's essentially comparing to previous 4-week window).

Really useful - thank you! (love your channel btw)

I have a 955. You may be onto something with the VO2 max. I had it lab tested recently at 57 for running but my watch has me at 51. I don't know if that is enough of a delta to cause the issues but it is strange that it has only recently been reading as strained/unproductive as I assume my VO2 max was always wrong on the watch.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 12:09

Post #14 of 21 (2291 views)

Ignore it.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 16:34

Post #15 of 21 (2119 views)

"For the following week my watch was giving me a training status of 'strained' even though I was doing easy training. I decided to take heed of the readings and took 3 days off completely before restarting a pretty easy block of post-season work."

Honestly, I think these Garmin post-run indications are a bunch of malarkey. I can't resist looking at them and always hope to see "productive" but there is no way I would consider changing my training. Often, it's just obviously out of whack with what my body is telling me. Whatever their algorithm is, it's questionable. I have a Garmin 255S.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Oct 17, 23 17:48

Post #16 of 21 (2069 views)

dcrainmaker wrote:

With an Epix Gen 2, it'll literally say why you're in the unproductive/etc state, if you tap the upper right button. It's pretty clear about what's causing it.

It doesn’t make sense though - sleep, HRV, stress, load, etc is all in the midpoint. There’s a good balance between anaerobic and high and low aerobic too. It is a good watch with a lot of data. Maybe I’m missing something overt.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 24 2:23

Post #17 of 21 (556 views)

I have been struggling with absurd training and fitness interpretation from my Garmin FR955 for at least a couple of months. It's really hard to understand what is the logic of the algorithm but, assuming there is one, it must be so generic and black/white that it is not capable of capturing the subjective aspects or the context. Maybe we are asking too much from a piece of technology. This has led me to thinking selling my FR955 - it's a great watch for everything except the interpretation of training and recovery.

Some examples include, complaining that I have a shortage of Low Aerobic and, if I give good low aerobic sessions, placing me from Productive to Unproductive. Suggesting me to focus on rest and nutrition when I have a pretty good diet and relatively low stress. In all this, sleeping patterns and HRV were on average.

We trained for centuries without a watch. If you feel good, leave it home and go train.

Last edited by: esskaa: Apr 16, 24 2:28

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [esskaa] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 24 2:58

Post #18 of 21 (524 views)

esskaa wrote:

I have been struggling with absurd training and fitness interpretation from my Garmin FR955 for at least a couple of months. It's really hard to understand what is the logic of the algorithm but, assuming there is one, it must be so generic and black/white that it is not capable of capturing the subjective aspects or the context. Maybe we are asking too much from a piece of technology. This has led me to thinking selling my FR955 - it's a great watch for everything except the interpretation of training and recovery.

Some examples include, complaining that I have a shortage of Low Aerobic and, if I give good low aerobic sessions, placing me from Productive to Unproductive. Suggesting me to focus on rest and nutrition when I have a pretty good diet and relatively low stress. In all this, sleeping patterns and HRV were on average.

We trained for centuries without a watch. If you feel good, leave it home and go train.

i struggle with this one a bit.

on the one hand, you're absolutely correct. this is the answer: learn to read your body well, build a smart training plan, and proceed.

on the other hand:
a) these watches are miraculous and i often imagine trying to explain them to my grandparents: it's a wristwatch that talks to satellites, and measures my heart rate, and is "a wireless radio" and so on. amazing!

b) if i'm ending up ignoring this watch half the time, what's the point? why buy it? when i was a kid i had a $30 timex that told time perfectly, recalled splits, was waterproof, and looked OK. after a year or two they added a HRM option. so if the pace data or training status data on my garmin isn't realiable, i'm left with . . . a digital watch with HRM? i've had that since the 90s, and it cost $50, not $500.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 24 3:12

Post #19 of 21 (512 views)

iron_mike wrote:

i struggle with this one a bit.

on the one hand, you're absolutely correct. this is the answer: learn to read your body well, build a smart training plan, and proceed.

on the other hand:
a) these watches are miraculous and i often imagine trying to explain them to my grandparents: it's a wristwatch that talks to satellites, and measures my heart rate, and is "a wireless radio" and so on. amazing!

b) if i'm ending up ignoring this watch half the time, what's the point? why buy it? when i was a kid i had a $30 timex that told time perfectly, recalled splits, was waterproof, and looked OK. after a year or two they added a HRM option. so if the pace data or training status data on my garmin isn't realiable, i'm left with . . . a digital watch with HRM? i've had that since the 90s, and it cost $50, not $500.

Hi Mike. Yes, I am a highly tech-dependent athlete and mine was just a rant (though really frustrated, and been for a long time, with this specific piece of tech).

I agree, and we all do (hopefully) that the tech advancements are great and (let's not forget) we deliberately spent the $$$ required to buy it. But, how many times does it happen that marketing takes over engineering in companies, and "half ready" products are pushed out for the sake of sales number? Like you said, the watch is great in talking to satellite, solar panel (!), loading and navigating maps, etc. .... but I don't feel the quality of the insights we expect to find (given the $ spent) are necessarily as good (or, as ready).

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [kjwcanary] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 24 4:51

Post #20 of 21 (453 views)

The feedback we get sometimes from Watches, phones and bike computers can be very wrong. Telling you to stand or move when driving? Telling you to stand a short while after you have stood up. Telling you to do some activity when you are having a rest day. Rest is the most important component of training. You don’t recover from your workouts and you do the opposite of improving. Devices want to run our lives. You also need to use that thing on top of your shoulders.

Re: Garmin consistently telling me I'm strained/unproductive [esskaa] [ In reply to ]

Apr 16, 24 5:46

Post #21 of 21 (412 views)

i also find the real-time pace data is often really shaky. i'm running hard and it tells me i'm going MUCH slower than i really am. fine, i can ignore it until the data corrects. here again, though, if i'm just going to ignore the watch, what's the point of paying for the GPS features? might as well go for a timex!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

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