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Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude (with water bladder in jersey)
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Back in October I had the opportunity to drive down to Tucson to do some beta testing with Brian and Marc, macag handle here on ST. They have developed a drag sensor which can be mounted on a bike and software to calculate the results. The data is collected by a Garmin head unit. The test run is a mile out, mile back on a quiet bike path. For the beta test I just ran my basic race set up and we made some positional adjustments. I was very impressed with not only how consistent the data was but how the software can provide a confidence level for each run. If you get an aberration, it will let you know and you can run it again.

My bike is a QR V-PR, size 52, Vision Pro extension, Profile Design Aeria front hydration, HED Vanquish RC 8/8 wheels (we didn't have time to run the HED disc at the end), Elite Crono aero bottle on the down tube, and a single bottle in a cage zip ties to the saddle rails in the back. I wore my Zoot 2022 P1 aero race kit and a Giro Aerohead size L. We had time for about 8 runs in October. First three were to establish the baseline, which averaged out to a CdA of .240. We then moved out my extensions to get a bit lower and made some corrections to my head position over the course of three runs and brought my average down to .225 albeit with that is somewhat limited data. But still a nice overall improvement from when I arrived that morning, going from .240 to the low .230 range.

Fast forward to this past weekend. I wanted to do some equipment testing. I have my Aerohead and recently bought the Rudy Wing. So those needed to be vetted. I also was super curious about the water bladder down the front of the jersey. I have a perfectly sized Camelback bladder that can hold 70oz. I filled it with 3 water bottles of fluid. All other equipment was the same with the exception of a newer Zoot PI Ultra one piece race suit for 2023 and Silca socks. We made 3 baseline runs wearing the Wingspan and averaged .229. We then did a total of 4 runs with the Aerohead which averaged .229. Immediately back to the Rudy and was down to .225 with a best of .220. Keeping the Rudy, we then did three runs with the bladder. Let me say first off it does feel very odd having that on your chest. The first run was deemed low confidence due to power meter drop outs. The next two produced results of .219 and .223. It's worth noting the .220 with the Wing and these runs were at the end of the sessions and I likely am getting a bit lower as my back gets stretched out over time. So the bladder averaged .221 for the two allowable runs. So the bladder saved 5-8 watts and maybe 3-4min in an Ironman over my initial baseline and maybe a min or so faster then my best run without it.

So it sort of begs the question what other advantages might that convey. It holds so much I could probably finish the entire bike leg without having to deal with an aid station (3 bottles equivalent in the bladder, two one the bike, and the front Aeria holds a little over a bottles worth. Even if I needed a little extra it's easy to fill the Aeria. If the race is hot, the bladder could be half filled the night before and frozen. Top it off race morning and it could really keep your core temperature lower for longer. But all that navel gazing aside, I really wanted to share these experiences to advocate what Brian and Mark are offering in their testing service, how many things can be quantified, and how valuable that can be for your racing results.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Apr 19, 23 8:33
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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That's cool. Thanks for the post and details. I have both helmets and plan on playing around with them in the next few weeks. I am also a member of TZ and am hoping for a productive race season. Good luck!
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Some quick, back of the napkin math shows you've reduced your CdA by about .023 -.024 across the two sessions.

Not too shabby for ~4h of total testing time.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I thought they were based out of East coast?
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
Some quick, back of the napkin math shows you've reduced your CdA by about .023 -.024 across the two sessions.

Not too shabby for ~4h of total testing time.

Even better going back to October baseline

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [blackey] [ In reply to ]
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blackey wrote:
I thought they were based out of East coast?

Brian is based in AZ but I know he travels quite a bit. He used the A2 tunnel quite a bit, maybe that's why you thought he was East coast ?
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Interested in whey bladder you used? I have issues with reaching and getting hydration on bike (my balance is awful at the best of times!) so this sounds like something to consider for me
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [blackey] [ In reply to ]
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blackey wrote:
I thought they were based out of East coast?

I'm based in Tucson and use A2 wind tunnel in NC.

The reality is with the size of the sensor I can aero test you anywhere.

For instance I have ~ 8 Aussie athletes in the SYD/Canberra areas that want to test. Just need to figure out a good time to go back to see the family there & aero test.

There are some San Diego area athletes that are interested in testing. Once we put that together it's an easy trip for me to get there.

Want to test? I can be in your area to test. It's that simple

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [AndyDawson01] [ In reply to ]
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AndyDawson01 wrote:
Interested in whey bladder you used? I have issues with reaching and getting hydration on bike (my balance is awful at the best of times!) so this sounds like something to consider for me


I have this one as part of a Camelback backpack I had already. Just pulled it out.


https://www.kozy.com/product/camelbak-antidote-reservoir-70-ounce-75406-1.htm

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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That’s not the Rudy Wingspan helmet, but the Rudy The Wing. Just to have no confusion ;-)

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Did you have to get a size larger suit so the bladder would fit?
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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This is really great tech.

The ability to get great comparitive data anywhere is a game changer.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [TRIPRO] [ In reply to ]
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TRIPRO wrote:
That’s not the Rudy Wingspan helmet, but the Rudy The Wing. Just to have no confusion ;-)

Jeroen

Right thanks I’ll edit that.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [bjgwoody] [ In reply to ]
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bjgwoody wrote:
Did you have to get a size larger suit so the bladder would fit?

No same size small I race in. They can stretch enough.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Not that Desert Dude or Marcag need me to vouch for them, but I was also part of the October 2022 test group and can whole heartedly endorse this technology. It is awesome. I started my baseline runs at .257 cda, and after just a few tweaks they had me down to mid .230's. Now that I am on a new bike, I am interested in trying again.
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [ltc] [ In reply to ]
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ltc wrote:
Not that Desert Dude or Marcag need me to vouch for them, but I was also part of the October 2022 test group and can whole heartedly endorse this technology. It is awesome. I started my baseline runs at .257 cda, and after just a few tweaks they had me down to mid .230's. Now that I am on a new bike, I am interested in trying again.




I remember your test. You were extremely consistent, A re-run of a test would be within .001.
There was a very clear break point as Brian increased your reach
Last edited by: marcag: Apr 18, 23 14:51
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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What sensor are you using?

blog
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I also tested. Unfortunately I did not follow directions/misinterpreted them and always stopped right after the line…. Garmin couldn’t keep up so the runs were messed up

Definitely want to go back and retest

These guys are great and know their stuff

http://www.TriScottsdale.org
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
blackey wrote:
I thought they were based out of East coast?


I'm based in Tucson and use A2 wind tunnel in NC.

The reality is with the size of the sensor I can aero test you anywhere.

For instance I have ~ 8 Aussie athletes in the SYD/Canberra areas that want to test. Just need to figure out a good time to go back to see the family there & aero test.

There are some San Diego area athletes that are interested in testing. Once we put that together it's an easy trip for me to get there.

Want to test? I can be in your area to test. It's that simple

Any chance you are coming to Colorado?
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
What sensor are you using?

One that isn't commercially available. Not sure when/if it is coming to market give some of the recent positive developments at the company.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:

Any chance you are coming to Colorado?

You will find I'm never opposed to getting out of the CO heat during our AZ summers. Contact me offline and we can set something up

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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How did you secure the bladder to your self? Did you just stuff it down your jersey?

Presumably, as you'd be drinking from it through the course of a race, the aero benefit would diminish as you drank the fluid? Unless you're saving that reservoir for last...
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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To push those thoughts further … why not just consider any old bladder, filled with air to stuff down the jersey? Or, for that matter, anything that fills space?
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
To push those thoughts further … why not just consider any old bladder, filled with air to stuff down the jersey? Or, for that matter, anything that fills space?

He mentioned using a frozen one for cooling effect.
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Re: Fun in the Sun. Outside Aero Testing with Desert Dude [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
ltc wrote:
Not that Desert Dude or Marcag need me to vouch for them, but I was also part of the October 2022 test group and can whole heartedly endorse this technology. It is awesome. I started my baseline runs at .257 cda, and after just a few tweaks they had me down to mid .230's. Now that I am on a new bike, I am interested in trying again.




I remember your test. You were extremely consistent, A re-run of a test would be within .001.
There was a very clear break point as Brian increased your reach

Somebody show this to the guy from Ku as an example of how to do a proper aero test.
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