No new venues. Eventually Kona will be the only one left. It'll be an open registration with a $10,000 entry fee.

Why stop at 10k? Executive members already pay more to race at Kona without qualifying!!

The numbers don't lie - interest is shifting to shorter events, or, maybe more accurately, different events. Undoubtedly IM will test a few new full venues, but I think those will be few and far between. And we're seeing more pushback from some venues on having expansive multi-day, traffic-blocking type events. Especially if the numbers can't inject a huge cash influx into the local scene.

While there has been countless threads on the above trend, I think one thing that the pandemic did in relation to long-course triathlon specifically, is break the training sign-up cycle. When people couldn't race, they stopped training for that specific race. When they did that, they started realizing they could still train (lots of training), but play the field with other less serious events of all sorts of endurance sport types. Thus why we've seen exploding popularity in gravel races, fondo's, trail running, and more.

I think a lot of people sorta fell into an annual rut of: 1) Sign-up for the big race a year from now, 2) Then start training accordingly, 3) Then sign-up for other shorter races to lead-up to the big race, 4) Do the big race, and then 5) Sign-up again for next year's big race.

All of which was done largely without contemplation for what else might actually exist. The reason 70.3's are interesting is because it doesn't require the same level of commitment, nor planning, nor training. Or seriousness.

Which isn't to say IM's are dead, but simply, perferences have shifted. It happens in all sports to varying degrees.

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Sad but true, all sectors one way or another have been affected by the pandemic. Some expecting recovery 2 to 4 years down the line.
The extreme spectrum category however, which i believe the sport is in might need additional time or even just fade out to just a handful of full races.

Hoping the 70s turn into 140s when time is right, but still far way doen the line

Not a disagreement, but I think in addition to what you outlined, IM could do way better in terms of venues to attract people to do 140.6.

Tulsa, Des Moines, Indiana, and Waco were all disastrously bad venues. Maryland is driving distance to me but I have zero desire to do it because I have no desire to go or race there. Just boring. These places are Just not attractive for prospective athletes. Maybe that's all they could get at the time, but I think those venues did nothing to incite people to do those races. Maryland is still there but hanging on by a thread it seems, numbers wise 1300 finishers in 2022.

If IM opened up a 140.6 in an enticing place, that could get people to go when they otherwise wouldn't think they wanted to do a full that year. How many of us would jump at lake Tahoe if they could get that again even for one year?? Races like LP, MT, and even others today like Wisconsin and Chattanooga, they thrive on the history, tradition, and familiarity theyve built over many years. Given the climate of full distance demand these days, IM should reduce the number but improve the attractiveness of any new 140.6 venues. Forget relying on demand, you have to entice people to go and try to create/reignite that demand and improve the experience for those doing it.

Put more resources into one GREAT new venue as opposed to the same amount of resources at two or three or four crappy venues (ex: indiana, Des Moines, Tulsa, waco).

I raced Tulsa and wow that was a fantastic venue all around. I was shocked.

The swim was in a beautiful state park that was lush and green.

The bike was incredibly scenic on awesome country roads with challenging hills

The run was rated the best run course in NA for a reason. Tons of support, nice and flat greenway up and down. Probably the most support on a run course ironman I’ve seen. Party the whole time by the spectators

Even Tulsa downtown itself did not disappoint. Amazing vibe and cool feel to the area. Really great restaurants too. Plenty of parking for family and friends and easy to get around town even with the race going on. The finish in the downtown high rises was also one of the better ones I’ve seen.

It is interesting how different people look for different things


Wanting or not wanting to go to a town/location has never entered into my choosing a race to go to

In my case, I might not have ever done a full IM if not for the pandemic. The ability to telework and save 2 hours I'd normally be commuting each day gave me the time to train for my first full Ironman. I always knew the amount of training required to do it right and felt like it was now or never since I had more time. I'm doing my second one this year.

I know a couple people who have gotten into Tris, or gotten back into it, recently. So, perhaps people like that may move up to doing fulls in the next few years and keep numbers up a bit.

I find this sort of hard to believe, in a literal sense. So if IM said we're hosting a full distance race on X date but we don't know where, could be anywhere in the country you live in...you'd say no problem sign me up, and you'd register? For your statement to be true you'd accept those terms. Even if it's subconscious that you know the location and don't have an issue with it, that's consideration of the location, to some degree.

Ironman is currently doing the right thing..... cutting on races. Make ironman exclusive again...make it a big field of 2500 people with big crowd,family, keep the best venue on the circut.... volonteer will be there for the big event.

they went a little overboard with the number of full ironman distance, it diluted the product, the quality of the events, the participant, the volonteer etc. The events were not special anymore. No one want to sign up for a ironman when it feel like your competing at a local small race. They want the ''feel special'' olympic game like experience...

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I don't disagree that it helps to have a host city that is attractive on its own. But one thing I think you discount is location convenience. All things equal, I'd much rather drive to an IM than fly. Unlike you, I'd more likely go to a conveniently located race in a decent location than a distant race in an awesome destination. In that sense, Des Moines is not so bad. You can say, "it's in the middle of Iowa, i.e., nowhere", but it's actually a pretty easy drive from a lot of cities (e.g., Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Indy, Minneapolis, Milwaukee). And it's an easy place to stay that offers a decent number of restaurants and is walkable. There's a reason the Crushing Iron guys gushed over the race in their podcast.

I'd be curious to know how many people drive to an IM versus fly. Even though many of us have flown to destination races, I bet the races are more local than we think.

The other aspect of the host city that matters is the community's interest in the event. I mean, are any of us itching to go to Roth just to see Roth? It's not usually at the top of one's list in terms of European vacations. Madison is a popular race in large part because it's known for its level of fan support. From IM's perspective, it can be hard to know which communities are going to embrace a race until they actually hold one.

I think full-distance races are shrinking for reasons other than venue selection. Otherwise, why would independent races such as the Great Floridian, which have been around for years, see declining numbers? If there is an issue with IM venues, it's that there are just too many of them in the current context (e.g. high inflation) and some of them are oddly scheduled. I've mentioned in other threads that holding IMWI, Madison 70.3, Michigan 70.3, and Muncie in a three-week period makes no sense. Something has to give there.

This is my way of choosing my races

What does it qualify for

Weather and course.

Extra points for mass start Rough ocean swim. Hot as possible. Potential for lots of wind. Minimal hills

I raced Tulsa this year. It was #25 for me. Agree with all your points. Only change I’d make if the race came back would be to move the run half way point closer to downtown because for most staying downtown it was too far to walk. For me it felt like a one loop run course with no immediate family support. But I loved the run course nonetheless. Also enjoyed the closed interstate on the bike and the lake swim was phenomenal.

Wow congrats on 25! That’s awesome

These are very interesting points. I also wonder how many people fly vs drive to an IM. depends on the location I guess. Des Moines, probably you're right, many (most) drove. Arizona, however, I imagine a larger percentage fly due to proximity to major airport.

I think the "interest in the event" thing is tough. Tulsa was touted as a place that loves endurance sports, and maybe it is, and maybe the crowds on the run were indeed great, but that race died after just two years. you're right that it's hard to tell if it will be accepted until they hold the race. so it's a tough riddle to crack. i think you're right there's more than venue selection. but i just think they can do better in this regard to inspire some who might be on the fence, to sign up due to the venue's appeal.

all this may be true, but to me, the reality is that it isn't super difficult to have a venue in the US satisfy all these criteria. tulsa isn't the only place where a race with these characteristics could have been put on. there's no shortage of small cities with good restaurants and good vibes, scenic surrounding roads, state parks with waterbodies, etc.

i also wonder if the run course "best in NA" thing was just publicity/staged to try and keep the race alive. Am i to believe that that run course was definitively better than lake placid, better than MT, chattanooga, penticton, wisconsin? Kinda the same way maryland showed very well in those atheletes choice things. No one on these forums says the maryland course is best (or even top 3) in anything. so I take that with a grain of salt. But - i concede you were there and raced it and i didnt. my friend did the inagural tulsa and so i have some of her input about the vibe but i didn't experience it myself. If folks come on here and strongly echo that it was the best run course in NA, legit, then i'll happily be corrected.

it's an interesting one. i don't race IMs (yet?) but travel is an important factor for me. it's one big reason why, even if i qualified tomorrow, i wouldn't do kona. so if a large-ish proportion of athletes are flying in to big events, i'd say put them near centers with major airports (direct flights!) and lots of accomodation. munich and frankfurt, atlanta and vegas - places like that?

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Me as well, have done 8 now, all at Tremblant and Placid, both which I can drive to.

As for folks saying WTC is keeping their best locations.......well, Tremblant has always been -very- highly rated, and it is going bye bye....

I’ve done all of the races that you’ve mentioned above, and yes, IMO, I’d put Tulsa above all of them for the run. I’d say they are all equally close except for Lake Placid. I’d put that at the bottom of your list because a half mile outside of downtown the course is desolate and it’s essentially a boring out and back for the majority of it.

I agree that "Desire to go to a town" does not enter into my equation for race selection. I look at time of year, course, reviews etc. What is in the town does not matter to me in any way because I go in, I race, I leave.

That being said I travel for work 100+ days a year. I do not sight see in most of the cities I go to year-round. I land, find a pool, go to work, bed by 8, and then leave. If I did not travel as much as I do, I think "desire to go to a town" would play into it.

I race Chattanoga because it's convenient, familiar and close to my house in Knoxville. I have only ever visited about 12 sq blocks of the city however lol.

Great point. I have zero interest paying whatever IM is charging these days to go to Tulsa, Des Moines, Waco or anything similar. There is simply nothing to do over there besides going for a race and get out of there (in my opinion). Now compare and contrast that to the events in Europe. Most of the races are in places that you can also do great tourism, don't even have to mention the names just simply go to the ironman website and randomly pick any city they're in, then google what to do in those cities. So much better options besides just the race itself.

The other point is the post pandemic customer flexibility. Races are not filling in because people are now used to more flexibility with the refund policies, at least I am. Roth for example, sell out in 40 seconds and still offer a refund of 60% of race fee up to one day before the race. Of course they do this because they will fill it no matter what. But that's the point that IM could take as future strategy: focus on less races in better venues where people want to go, and offer better refund policies. This will inevitably lead to less number of races but better overall experiences.

Need more fulls in beautiful coastal areas. No offense to the rest of the country, but Florida is the ideal triathlon state and the fact there is only one full and two 70.3's in the state doesn't make sense to me. Ocean swim, great weather, easy travel, good resources in the entire state, and entertainment for support crew.

As a FL resident I agree. That stated, the window for racing in FL is more or less April to mid-May and mid-Oct to mid-Dec. The rest of the year it's too hot or too early season and/or possibly too cool for areas north of imaginary line drawn from Tampa to Melbourne.

We have GC 70.3 in mid-May, IMFL in early Nov., and FL 70.3 in early Dec.

I'd put two more 70.3s in FL. One in the Miami area and one in the Tampa/Clearwater/St. Pete area.

The 140.6 distance is dying on the vine. I wouldn't open another full in FL (or anywhere for that matter).

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