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Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir
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Hi there,

I'm in the process of getting a new front wheel to pair with the disc on the TT bike (Shiv disc Tri).
Right now I'm on 321 disc rear (or CLX64) and CLX64 front.

I've seen the latest DTSwiss 1100 (with 20mm internal width) remains regularly in the top 3 in the tests I've seen, and can be found at a good price.
The HED Vanquish is the first option I had until I saw the DTSwiss. Maybe the Jet is the most logical choice due to its performance/price ratio, but I don't really like that the rim is made of aluminum and covered with carbon...
The Zephir looks nice, but I haven't really seen any test outside of their website, and obviously there the wheel is the fastest and also supermegahyper aero... and the price point is similar to top end wheels from renowned brands (DTSwis, Hed, Zipp) So it should really be superior to the other choices to pick the Zephir over the other options I think (or maybe not?).

Any thoughts/advice?

Thank you!
Last edited by: manuzxr: Aug 14, 23 8:42
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
The HED Vanquish is the first option I had until I saw the DTSwiss. Maybe the Jet is the most logical choice due to its performance/price ratio, but I don't really like that the rim is made of aluminum and covered with carbon...

The Vanquish is a full carbon rim. The Jet is HED's al/carbon offering.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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Any of those check the "Got super fast wheels" box.

If you lose a race by 2 seconds or something you can maybe agonize over the nth degree of optimization.

As noted above the Vanquish is all carbon.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
Quote:

The HED Vanquish is the first option I had until I saw the DTSwiss. Maybe the Jet is the most logical choice due to its performance/price ratio, but I don't really like that the rim is made of aluminum and covered with carbon...


The Vanquish is a full carbon rim. The Jet is HED's al/carbon offering.

That's right, and and that is the reason I tend to prefer the Vanquish or ARC1100 over the JET (Assuming I might be completely wrong) in the other side, the look of th TT bike with a massive 90mm deep wheel has to be ...
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Any of those check the "Got super fast wheels" box.

If you lose a race by 2 seconds or something you can maybe agonize over the nth degree of optimization.

As noted above the Vanquish is all carbon.


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I'll lose the race by a bit more than 2 secs... hahaha But it's true that my strength is the bike split...

Maybe the smartest buy would be the DT Swiss: It's a top wheel made by a top brand with all the fancy specs that are a must nowadays (20mm internals, ceramic bearings - I don't care, aero lightweight spokes....). Also keep in mind that they have a higher resale value than the other options. And there are very good offers on the web right now...
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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Whoops, sorry... misread that somehow.

Honestly, I know an awful lot of people who prefer the Jet to the Vanquish even when they have both in the quiver. I believe Slowman is in this camp.
An aluminum extrusion is a damn good way to make a rim.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Just to put in my 2c on the Jets… I’ve been riding a pair of Jet+ 9s all summer, and I’ve got a few comments on them:

The wheels are an older design optimized for “23” labeled tires, and with that tire size (in front) the Jet+ 9 would be the fastest of the wheels you listed. The Aerocoach charts support this. The Jet 9 is 25c tires balloon a touch at the track, but the widest point on the rim is still a touch wider than all but the widest 25c measured tire.

If you’re willing to race on a 23c front tire (which I find measure 25.5-26) then the Jets will probably beat the other wheels by a few watts. In case that matters to you. But if plan to race 25c tires, it”s probably a wash or worse, and I would definitely get a wider external width wheel if you plan to ride 28c.

FYSA Jet 6 and 4 do not get wider than 26mm, regardless of what HED says on their site. Even more than the 9s, they would almost certainly need a 23mm tire to shine.

For 90mm wheels, the Jet 9 handle crosswinds with little to no drama. I’ve had 60mm wheels that were noticeably worse. HED worked some magic with that shape.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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I actually have owned all three, and still own the DT Swiss and HED Vanquish GP6.

The AeroCoach Zephyr is optimized for smaller tires (23c and 25c), so if you want to run something wider you'd be sacrificing a bit of speed for comfort. I'm unsure which kid of hub they use, and I also did not like the valve stem cover. It uses a heavy metal bolt that seems like a very poor design choice for a wheel designed to be fast. However, they do sell 3D printed covers that snap into place.

The DT Swiss and HED wheels are probably your best bet, and honestly you could probably choose based on graphics alone. DT Swiss has hidden spoke nipples, which is probably the only major difference. Both use great hubs and should test among the fastest. And don't forget Swiss Side has the HADRON, which is the exact same wheel as DT Swiss. Amongst those three I'd buy whatever is cheaper and in stock.

edit: I run Conti GP5k's on both the DT Swiss and HED wheels, and the widest part of the rim is still wider than the tires, so they adhere to the rule of 105%.
Last edited by: Th4ddy: Aug 14, 23 12:35
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [Rob84] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
If you’re willing to race on a 23c front tire (which I find measure 25.5-26) then the Jets will probably beat the other wheels by a few watts. In case that matters to you. But if plan to race 25c tires, it”s probably a wash or worse, and I would definitely get a wider external width wheel if you plan to ride 28c.


The measured vs actual width thing is real, and it's worth noting that tire manufacturers have generally changed the way they measure sizing to normalize for the wider rims that people are using now. For eg: a "23" GP4000 - which would balloon out to well over 25 on something like a Jet rim - is pretty much comparable in cross section to a "25" GP5000. So, yes... the Jets were designed to work well with tires that were called 23 at the time, but those tires would be labelled a 25 or a 26 now.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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I swear by the DT Swiss ARC models. But I’m slightly biased.

I’ve had by now: Arc 1100 80, Arc 1400 80, Arc 1100 62, Arc 1400 62, Arc 1400 50/62, Arc 1600 62.

The Arc 1100 80 were the fastest, but I cannot say I notice any difference in Arc 1400 80. I always run them with GP 5000 (standard clincher, S TR or TT) 25mm front and 28mm rear. The 25mm tire line is perfectly aligned with the width of the front rim.

Wind? I lack perspective, but I’ve survived IM Lanzarote with the 80/80 setup.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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So,
I guess the choice would be between The DTSwiss and the Jet9...

I run on GP5000 25 (TR, latex or butyl) The CLX has 20,9 inner width, so both options would handle (size wise) similar on both rims. I assume the hub is much better in the 1100, but the wheel is a higher spec'd wheel than the jet (and the price is higher too, but not son much)
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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DT Swiss ARC 1100. Probably the fastest, and definitely the most reliable from a tubeless usability perspective.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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Jet+9. HED just ran a 20% off special.....
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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manuzxr wrote:
So,
I guess the choice would be between The DTSwiss and the Jet9...

I would also, based on the wind tunnel testing I've done for manufacturers with wheels put the Premier tactical in the list for fastest wheels. The front 88 was slightly faster than the vanquish across the yaw spectrum that I tested, which iirc was 0, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, 15, 0 then the - sweep of those points. All using the same tire & brake rotor.

If it were me I'd choose the Premier or as someone who used HEDs for 25 of my 30 years of racing, the HEDs

https://www.premierbike.com/...front-wheel-clincher

Hope that helps

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: Aug 15, 23 8:10
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [Th4ddy] [ In reply to ]
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Th4ddy wrote:
I actually have owned all three, and still own the DT Swiss and HED Vanquish GP6.

The AeroCoach Zephyr is optimized for smaller tires (23c and 25c), so if you want to run something wider you'd be sacrificing a bit of speed for comfort. I'm unsure which kid of hub they use, and I also did not like the valve stem cover. It uses a heavy metal bolt that seems like a very poor design choice for a wheel designed to be fast. However, they do sell 3D printed covers that snap into place.

The DT Swiss and HED wheels are probably your best bet, and honestly you could probably choose based on graphics alone. DT Swiss has hidden spoke nipples, which is probably the only major difference. Both use great hubs and should test among the fastest. And don't forget Swiss Side has the HADRON, which is the exact same wheel as DT Swiss. Amongst those three I'd buy whatever is cheaper and in stock.

edit: I run Conti GP5k's on both the DT Swiss and HED wheels, and the widest part of the rim is still wider than the tires, so they adhere to the rule of 105%.


I read where you had an extremely hard time mounting tires to the DT Swiss / Hadron (why would anyone buy the DT Swiss btw when they are 2x the cost of the Hadron) wheel? Is / was that the case?
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [blackey] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, the wheels are Swiss Side (funny how they have DT swiss tubeless tape and manufacturer stickers though). GP5000 S TR's were quite difficult, but mostly the first tire bead. Once I figured out how to use the tire lever to get the first bead on the rim, I was able to get the second bead on by hand. Honestly it was only frustrating because I was doing it the wrong way. And I had the opposite experience with Vittoria Corsa's and HED Vanquish rims. They fit was so loose I could only seat the bead with a compressor.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [Th4ddy] [ In reply to ]
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These are the newer 20mm internal ones correct?
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [blackey] [ In reply to ]
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Having owned five newest gen ARC 1100 wheels, i found the wheels to be exactly equal in terms of how tight/difficult it is fitting tubeless tyres. Just right. And no issues inflating. Having owned several other brands, incl HED (Vanquish), i found the difference in tubeless usability and reliability is night and day.
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Re: Front Wheel advice: DTSwiss arc 1100 dicut, HED Vanquish Rc8 (or jet9), Aerocoach Zephir [manuzxr] [ In reply to ]
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Bob's Leisure, a German Sporting Goods online retailer, is selling the DT Swiss ARC 1400 Dicut 80mm disc front wheel right now for $675. It will be a nice addition for the right course.

I bought a beautiful pair of Bora WTO wheels from them for a steal a while back. Quick shipping but had to pay some custom$
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