I said underfit, but I think my underfit's a bit different ;) I just need consistent pool time with someone on deck to keep me on track, and fortunately, that is starting back up again.

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I say yes please

duathlon?

Reason for lack of fitness is lack of pool access. Luckily its summer we can do OWS, yet that can have its own issues

Perhaps the a group buy on swim devices? (whipr, vasa, fastlane) ? I was curious to buy a whipr but keep seeing shipping delays of 4 months, which is what is preventing me from pulling the trigger to buy

I may do OWS soon, but I have a few issues with OWS where I live.

The first issue is jellyfish. I seem to encounter these at least every other time I swim in the ocean. I mostly get these long skinny things wrapped around my arm and it itches. It freaks me out a little.

The other issue that is much more rare is that I've seen a shark in OWS and it has scared the crap out of me during this swim and I've been nervous about swimming in that spot ever since. I know the likelihood of getting bitten by a shark is low, but its not zero.

The final issue I have with OWS is - where do I put my keys? I seem to have to hide my car keys somewhere every time I go swimming and this makes me very nervous. I usually swim with $40 cash in my boardshorts just in case I am left without a car when I get out of the water so that I can buy enough food to walk 5mi home barefoot. Yes, I catastrophize situations. I can't help it - it's how I live.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

The keys issue can be instantly solved. Buy any of the safety buoys on Amazon, you know the bright inflatable ones that attached to your waist via strap. Almost all of them are designed so the air-filled bladder doubles as a dry bag, with dry-bag seal-type top. They really work, I stuff mine with Bodyglide, keys, wallet, phone, extra goggles, (haven't tried a big water bottle though!), no problem.

You should be doing OWS with one of these anyway, it's def safer - you can easily hang onto it for rest or if you have a panic attack, and makes you much more visible if something does go wrong.

Just fill the dry-bag with fresh water. Problem solved!


(ok...I'm in a bit of a sarcastic mood today)

Oh ok thanks for this. I might try it out! :P

yay swimming

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

https://www.amazon.com/...623272316&sr=8-6

I use this one. WOrks great.

In my 25+ years of coaching the #1 underutilized tool is actually going to the pool to swim. The rest is picking up pennies while stepping over quarters.

After that it's designing effective workouts
after that, or maybe before that, it's understanding what drills to do to fix what. Actually before that it's understanding what's wrong in their stroke. Most AOS swimmers suck at that as well as choosing which drills to do that will be effective for their stroke flaws

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

i can't disagree with any of that. i think one of the more effective tools we have here is the show-us-your-swim-video threads, kind of like the bike fit help threads.

maybe i'll start a new thread, and ask good swimmers and swim coaches what they think the most problematic swim technique problems are for AOS, and then we see if there's a consensus approach to how to fix these problems.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

let me organize my previous post a bit better:


1. Going to the pool w/ sufficient frequency over a long enough period of time to make anything you do stick. probably 4-5x week of swimming for about 4-5 mo. Anything less and you're going to make the 1% improvement vs the 20% improvement

2a. Learning what are the 2 or 3 largest stroke flaws.
2b. Solving for which offers the fastest fix and the fix that could make the largest positive impact. These may be the same thing they may not. The hardest thing may take the longest to fix
2c. Choosing one or two of the above three flaws to fix. Maybe you go for the fast fix while doing some work on the biggest impact fix, maybe you laser focus on the largest gain. Often improving one thing makes improving something else easier/faster. (this is one of those credit card debt things - do you pay off the smallest balance or pay down the largest balance first?)

3. Figuring out how to change the flaws

4. Implement the plan. See topic 1 above. If you go 1-2x per week do you really think that's going to matter?
A. No
B. No
C. All of the above

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

On the point of fixing flaws... and needing firstly to know what those flaws actually are.
Video analysis has been (for me) really useful.
As most people don't intentionally go to swim badly !

Any magic way of helping make that happen ? (Lots of good 'assess my bike fit please' stuff on the forum. Any cunning way of that for swimming? And of course education of folks on how to get it selfie-filmed, assuming that part of the reason for not getting a 'proper' assessment is the unavailability due to Covid restrictions.

I've been working with triathletes for 11 years and coaching swimming for almost 30 years. Here's my observations on the limiters to improving in the swim for triathletes:

1. Triathlon is still a young sport with training ideas that are similar to swim training ideas from the 1980s.

2. The fatigue generated in one sport is not "silo-ed" off from the other two disciplines. The swim is the first to be impacted by that overall fatigue. (Never taking days off during training is also a big culprit). "How do you un-burn a steak? Don't overcook it in the first place."

3. A large majority of pro triathletes and some age group triathletes race too often. If pro triathletes want to perform at a World Class level at the Championship part of the season, don't shoot your shot in March - July. This will also hinder development in the swim and relates back to reason #2.

4. The belief that you can improve to a competitive level on 3 times a week in the swim. Also, the belief that open water swimming will make you faster and the open water skill set is large. Along with the belief that using a VASA is the same thing as going to swim in the pool.

5. The idea that technique is the most important skill in swimming and spending 1 of their 3 practices in a week doing all drill work.

6. The idea that technique is the most important skill in swimming and then swimming 10x400s with horrible technique the whole time because they need to build their "engine" and swim the distance.

7. Never stepping foot in a weight room.

There are a lot more, but these would be the most common that I see on a regular basis.

Hope this helps,

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Thanks! I just purchased one of these bags and also this Shark Repeller:

https://www.amazon.com/Sharkbanz-Magnetic-Shark-Repellent-Band/dp/B01N7CSP0S/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=5AJVTIELL50K&dchild=1&keywords=shark%2Brepellent%2Bbracelet&qid=1623274111&sprefix=shark%2Brepellan%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-3-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyS1Q3TE8wMU05VUc0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDMwNzAzMTBYNFJVRVVUNFg1MSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDYxNTIzMVdRMzhCNjY5RDNXMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I should be all set to swim - just need some headphones.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

True. Yet a lot of triathletes don't do anything to sort out their swim even though they are coming out of the water at 35 min & worse for a spot on half or 1;20 for a full. (the worse of a swimmer you are the bigger your delta between half & full AND the smaller your margin of error for The Perfect race in a full compared to a half)

They and their buddies who also don't swim very well are giving each other advice, most of it wrong and will hurt forward progress



I think learning how to video yourself, or getting a few friends together then filming each other is a great tool as long as you then do something constructive with it. Send it off & pay for a video analysis. Or rope someone who knows something about swimming to help you correct flaws from the video.

If you send it off they may send back a list of here are the 10 things wrong with your stroke or they will send it back with 2 or 3 things and some ways to correct that. That's what you want. This isn't a 1 and done process. It's a multi month / multi video process.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I am more of a lurker here and just read the threads to pick up what I can as an Adult Onset Everything, but especially the Swim. But this topic seems to describe me perfectly and desert dude's answer is close to what I think I need to improve more. So to start, it's definitely just figuring out some drills to do. I lean on the basics like sculling, dog paddle, high elbow, fingertip, and catch up so would love to learn more. But more importantly I don't really know what my biggest issue is any more so identifying that and then matching the right drill to the right problem area would be the most helpful. I try to follow the advice in here and do the right amount of drills, kicking, and then workouts, but honestly don't really know what I do well and what I do poorly so it's just trying to fix it all together the best I can.

The next piece would then be to cobble together individual workouts and then a string of workouts (the 10 week plan you mention could be helpful) to maximize the progress I need to make. I use the fish thread to figure things that I might like and might help me, but again my knowledge level is low so I don't really know if I am being efficient with my time or not.

As a for instance, and not trying to derail the thread here, but I am trying to go from adult swimmer and just surviving an hour of Masters practice to moving up some lanes and holding a 1:30 or better for the whole of practice (when not doing specific drills or other strokes). Lucky to have pool access during Covid, but not Masters currently. My go to Monday workout to track my progress was 1200 total of warmup, drills, kick, and paddle - then 12 x 100 on a slow, medium, fast cycle of three. Started around 1:45/1:40/1:35 and after a few months worked my way down to getting under 1:30. A few weeks ago did 12 straight at 1:29 or better so met some of my goal (don't think I could hold that speed through a full practice that involved 3,000 total yards and had any part of the set over 100). So my question to those that would set up some help like this, would be 1) is this an effective way to continue to push my speed and 2) if so, what's next to try and get this to where I can go for a full hour. Do I add more reps and get up to 15 or 20 100s? Keep working on just the speed portion and push to get to 1:20 somehow? Shorten my rest, I go on the 1:50 even on my faster 100s so I may be cheating by taking a little too much rest at 20-25 seconds? Advice on things like this so that I can have more efficient single workouts and mesh them into a full set of workouts over a number of weeks (hopefully swimming three to four times a week). I try and cobble that together from the fish thread knowing I will never swim those speeds, but would love to get to something respectable.

I've always been a slow swimmer but a big factor for me is cost. I only have 2 options near me, a regional YMCA and a separate masters pool and both would cost me $60 per month. For someone who swims twice per week and whose speed continues about the same pace whether I swim or not, that's not a good value proposition.

I'm lucky that I live in the south with a good lake for open water swimming 30 mins away, so I can get in 1-2 OWS per week from the beginning of April-end of October. I also have my HOA pool but only have late mornings and sometimes lunch to avoid the number of people in the pool.

Biggest issue for me recently has been swimming straight during a race. My pace has picked up but I'm consistently adding 100-200yds to every swim as I drift to my left without the line to guide me. I'm not even trying to be fast since I have a FOP bike/run (and I enjoy swimming much less), but I want to be at least above 50th percentile coming out of the water.

Totally agree (and know several who are not willing to do exactly that and improve. Which is good for me - I can and do take 20 mins off some buddies on the swim who are WAAAAY fitter and more talented than me !
Whilst I have made the effort to improve my technique a lot over the past 10 years - meaning I'm both quicker and (important for some things I want to do) can swim a lot further than 2.4 miles without any concern or problem - I'm in the camp that thinks an IM swim should really be 10k).

So back to Dan's question. I think the summary is
1. Schooling on how to do self-video (or video-a-mate) for subsequent analysis

2. Some kind of easy-to-use service to send those videos off to, for meaningful analysis by someone who knows what's and what, and clear guidance/instructions on what to go and do to fix the flaws (or say the worst 2 or 3).

(And 3... a mechanism to deliver a kick up the arse of those who can't be bothered to improve. Although that's not in *MY* best interest !!).

Yes to swim analysis video thread. I am so new to swimming I simply need in person lessons but access to pools and budget are keeping me from it so far. For those reasons I've committed to a summer of duathlon only with the goal of re-learning to swim in the fall.

I'd certainly appreciate a thread dedicated to newbies if people are willing to share insight.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Yes please!!! I have some serious triathlon goals, but my swim suuuuuucks.

I’m all over any opportunity to get better on this discipline.

P.S. I’ve been a lurker on here for a while, but had to jump in on this.

I'd love a 'post a video of your swim' thread - can always use more help!

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I have been thinking about this question a bit lately. As a terrible AOS swimmer with a multitude of flaws yet one who does ‘try’ to improve mechanics and fitness in preparation for racing…I would like to know what is the lowest hanging fruit. Then I can work on that.


How can I get video? I don’t have a GoPro and the pool frowns on recording @ the pool?

I’ve watched a ton of you tube videos but you can only focus on so much-And I need to be time efficient. Having feedback would be very wonderful.

Suggestions?

there are adapters that fit onto tripods that hold your phone. like this one. then you get a tripod, maybe like this. now you're into it $25. make a video, upload it to youtube, and then you click the share button and you'll see a URL that has a URL that includes "youtu.be" as the domain. copy that URL, and just paste it here. the video populates in your message.

that's how you technically do it. how you get around the frowning pool staff is another thing. if you can bring a sig other to the pool, and he/she videos you, there's that. or, you just ask forgiveness instead of permission. if your pool is used by teams/clubs, i can almost promise you videoing is occurring. so then the question is, why are you selectively not allowed to video for stroke improvement purposes?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman