samtridad wrote:
curtish26 wrote:
All running programs are based on three key runs 1) Speed Works 2) Tempo Work 3) Long Runs.
I would go to the Track on Mondays and do 1-2 mile worm up 3-4 miles of intervals followed by 1-mile cool down for my speed work.
For interval work I would start with something like 2-miles easy, 3-miles tempo, 2-miles easy and increase the tempo time and decrease the easy miles until I was doing about 8-mile at tempo pace.
For long runs I would start with 12 miles runs and build up to about 20-22 mile runs. I also would do some race pace stuff in the last half of these long runs by either doing one mile at race pace then one mile easy for the last 6-8 miles or by dropping 5 seconds a mile off my pace every mile for the last half so that I would end just under race pace, etc.
Search for the Furman Institute "Run Less Run Faster" Plan. It will give you the 3 run work outs that you need each week and you can do cycling/swimming on the other days.
Yeah, I guess I just wondered if you had replaced one of the quality runs with a "similar" workout on the bike. I'm doing my "speedwork" on the bike instead of at a running track and was curious to know if anyone had tried something similar. Each week I'm doing a long run and a marathon pace run, and then two easy runs. Then I'm doing two workouts on the bike where I'm riding either just below or just above FTP. So I'm not doing any running faster than marathon pace (since that tends to be when I get injured) and hoping that the intensity on the bike will be a good substitute.
It sounds like you basically did the FIRST marathon plan key runs and then used cycling for "easy volume", which is different.
IMO tempo runs (threshold pace or near hour race pace for ~20 min, or a bit slower for longer) are the most important marathon workout, and I think you’re doing yourself a disservice by not including them in your training plan. I would also not call either tempo runs or training close to FTP “speedwork” - I’d use that term for running paces or cycling paces considerably faster than threshold.
I’m going to agree with Tom here. I have run good marathons where there was some cycling or skating intensity in parts of the training block. But running a good marathon is mostly about putting in the run miles (and intensity) in training.
My best marathon (NYC 2019, low 2:40s) was on the heels of the first time I trained for triathlon over the summer; the 12 weeks prior to the race averaged high 50s mpw running and 2.5 hours a week of biking, skating, and other stuff, much of which was moderate to hard cycling, which tapered down to ~1 hour a week, not too intense, in the 5-6 weeks leading up to NYC. The following summer (2020, few races) i leaned harder into mixed training, and ran a solid solo marathon (low 2:50s) on low 40s mpw and ~6 hours a week of cycling, skating, and other stuff, with more sustained intensity in the non-running sports towards the end of the block. It’s hard to compare because it wasn’t an official race but nevertheless I think the lower run mileage and higher training stress in the other disciplines (leading to higher general fitness) did not ultimately help my run time.
I can also add in a “control” marathon training cycle from fall 2018, low 2:40s marathon time again (not quite as good as NYC) on high 60s average mpw running and ~1 bike ride a week of maybe an hour average duration, some 2-hour rides early in the training block. Less total training time and overall intensity, nearly as good a result as NYC 2019 (though on an easier course) and much faster than the solo 2020 effort.
So, overall, my takeaways from these 3 marathon blocks — 7 hr/wk run + 2.5 hr/wk other > 8 hr/wk run + 1 hr/wk bike >> 5 hr/wk run + 6 hr/wk other — are generally pretty orthodox:
-running more miles is the most efficient way to run faster
-adding easy cycling throughout is great, but don’t add so much that it really cuts into your run volume or intensity
-some intensity in cycling early in the training block is ok, but fade it out as the block progresses and the marathon workouts get harder
-IMO a huge value of adding some biking can be to alleviate some of the mental staleness from running all the time. The effects on physical fitness might even be a wash, but if it’s good for your mental sharpness and vitality, then it’s still a huge win. There’s another mental injury-resilience aspect I could elaborate on here too but this is already a long post.