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Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
It is always sad to see one of the really cool brands struggle.
At the same time, over a Canyon things are going well.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...der-cycling-industry
I think this says a lot about the private equity/mergers and acquisitions mindset of modern business. Glueing together a bunch of somewhat related companies (mobility in this case) probably dilutes the company’s ability to focus and adapt to changing market conditions and reduces innovation.
At the same time, over a Canyon things are going well.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...der-cycling-industry
I think this says a lot about the private equity/mergers and acquisitions mindset of modern business. Glueing together a bunch of somewhat related companies (mobility in this case) probably dilutes the company’s ability to focus and adapt to changing market conditions and reduces innovation.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
BryanD wrote:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/felt-bicycles-to-be-sold-due-to-difficult-economic-environmentA bit confusing. I hope the stated rationale to focus more on KTM e-bikes and motorcycles doesn't affect Felt's shared HQ with KTM's U.S. campus in Murrieta, CA. It seems like maybe they'll continue to share, but the management structure will be more independent.
I really hope that Felt doesn't get effectively ended as we know it, just becoming a badge to stick on open mold-type frames.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
Wow, surprising, especially after signing Niki Terpstra as a Gravel Privateer only last year.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
It is always sad to see one of the really cool brands struggle. At the same time, over a Canyon things are going well.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...der-cycling-industry
I think this says a lot about the private equity/mergers and acquisitions mindset of modern business. Glueing together a bunch of somewhat related companies (mobility in this case) probably dilutes the company’s ability to focus and adapt to changing market conditions and reduces innovation.
I remember when Canyon was doing Payolla in Men's Health and GQ saying their D2C model drove prices down the for consumer which was just hogwash even in 2019. Consider that you could get a Giant for significantly less it was funny. Their model can't be key to their growth, just helps them shave costs. They blow a ton of money on marketing.
Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [TheStroBro]
[ In reply to ]
I have zero Canyons, but they do indeed seem to be a good bargain, even undercutting value brands like Giant. E.g. their Dura-Ace Di2 Utimate CFR is still under $10K. Not even Giant's Dura-Ace Propel is under $10K anymore. Same across the board from gravel, MTB, TT, etc.
Per your point, though. their search and SEO budget is next level because when my search term was "Giant bikes" to look up the retail price on the Dura-Ace Propel ($12.5K), I still ended up at canyon.com because apparently they paid Google to put Canyon as the promoted first result on any bike brand search.
Per your point, though. their search and SEO budget is next level because when my search term was "Giant bikes" to look up the retail price on the Dura-Ace Propel ($12.5K), I still ended up at canyon.com because apparently they paid Google to put Canyon as the promoted first result on any bike brand search.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
I think this says a lot about the private equity/mergers and acquisitions mindset of modern business.It mostly says something about Canyons margins. That's a really good way to insulate your business from market fluctuations.
Unlike a traditional brand running on slim margins that gets hammered by anything that happens in the supply chain.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
Jim Felt, please pick up the white courtesy phone. Jim Felt, white courtesy phone please...
:)
:)
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [cyclenutnz]
[ In reply to ]
cyclenutnz wrote:
It mostly says something about Canyons margins. That's a really good way to insulate your business from market fluctuations.
Unlike a traditional brand running on slim margins that gets hammered by anything that happens in the supply chain.
Felt has seemingly been retreating for years. They dropped out of mountain bikes altogether, when they made pretty good ones. They were late to gravel/adventure - the Breed/Broam (Broam?) arriving pretty anonymously maybe past "peak gravel." Their e-bikes got stripped out of the brand by the last owner who has a separate e-bike brand. Their road bikes are fine, IMO, but they pulled out of supplying bikes to Human Powered Health. After having previously supplied Argos Shimano (now DSM) then Slipstream. They dropped out of affordable, aluminum track/fixie bikes, seemingly, now just with a high end carbon model. But they were dropped as Team USA supplier (now Canyon), so the high end track bike is for masters racers now, I guess.
The IA is great, but that's probably a low volume segment.
Long, slow fall. No idea what "bottom" will be.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [trail]
[ In reply to ]
After the damage Rossignol did, one of the first things Pierer did was destroy the distribution network by dropping all the existing regional distributors.
I don't know if there is much value left in the brand beyond the name now.
Wouldn't be surprised if they now try to be DTC but that will depend a lot on the funding they have behind them
I don't know if there is much value left in the brand beyond the name now.
Wouldn't be surprised if they now try to be DTC but that will depend a lot on the funding they have behind them
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
Sold my last Felt in 2016.
Seems like a brand that was always a bit behind the curve since.
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?
Seems like a brand that was always a bit behind the curve since.
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [NordicSkier]
[ In reply to ]
NordicSkier wrote:
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?I prefer that for a gravel bike. :)
But understand that it's not the current fashion.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?
I prefer that for a gravel bike. :)
But understand that it's not the current fashion.
Almost guaranteed to get cable rub on the frame.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [NordicSkier]
[ In reply to ]
NordicSkier wrote:
Almost guaranteed to get cable rub on the frame.
I don't know, I've got a 10 y.o. cyclocross bike that I've thrashed to no end, and it's got every kind of mark possible except cable rub.
I get the fashion side of things. It looks super neat having minimal-to-no visible cables. I like my SuperSix with the compromise port that goes down the front of the headtube. But wouldn't want it on gravel/CX because that port isn't as well sealed to mud as a downtube port with the rubber grommet.
I'm not a luddite. All in on discs, maybe hookless. I'm still cringey on a lot of new front end routing.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [trail]
[ In reply to ]
Oh, I hate integrated routing.
It's a disaster to pack into a bike box or do position/bar/stem adjustments.
Top tube entry is better than head or down tube though.
It's a disaster to pack into a bike box or do position/bar/stem adjustments.
Top tube entry is better than head or down tube though.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [NordicSkier]
[ In reply to ]
The bike industry is entirely clueless when it comes to retail.
Canyon has a far from revolutionary business model, yet when it comes to this industry, they look cutting edge.
Say I want to buy a road bike...I visit Canyon.com, I am directed to the kinds of bikes they offer that suit what I'm looking for and I am presented with a list of prices. Simple, clear and easy. I did the same with Cannonade. I can't even tell what level of bike I am looking at...Do I want an EVO 1 2 3 4 or Hi Mod, is there a low Mod, can I get the EF version of the bike with fake stickers? Once I figure out how the bikes differ...I still cannot determine which bike I want as I have to find a dealer to get pricing. Then when I do find a dealer, if he or she bothers to reply to online queries, I am sure I will not be presented with a complete inventory in model, size and colour, and I will be steered to whatever version they have in stock. And then...I have to negotiate in the dark on price.
In the meantime, I bought my second Canyon with a few clicks, I know what I am getting and what I am paying for it. I know that it is a competitive price, and in my personal experience with my Speedmax, Canyon stood behind the product with excellent warranty service. I also understand the inconveniences and cost if I need to order proprietary components from Canyon, but also that most of what is wear and tear I can get from any bike shop any where.
Felt? What do they offer and how do they sell in this environment? My only surprise in the bike industry is the huge number of incompetent brands that somehow lurch on year to year rather than a few once big names fading into irrelevance like Felt.
Canyon has a far from revolutionary business model, yet when it comes to this industry, they look cutting edge.
Say I want to buy a road bike...I visit Canyon.com, I am directed to the kinds of bikes they offer that suit what I'm looking for and I am presented with a list of prices. Simple, clear and easy. I did the same with Cannonade. I can't even tell what level of bike I am looking at...Do I want an EVO 1 2 3 4 or Hi Mod, is there a low Mod, can I get the EF version of the bike with fake stickers? Once I figure out how the bikes differ...I still cannot determine which bike I want as I have to find a dealer to get pricing. Then when I do find a dealer, if he or she bothers to reply to online queries, I am sure I will not be presented with a complete inventory in model, size and colour, and I will be steered to whatever version they have in stock. And then...I have to negotiate in the dark on price.
In the meantime, I bought my second Canyon with a few clicks, I know what I am getting and what I am paying for it. I know that it is a competitive price, and in my personal experience with my Speedmax, Canyon stood behind the product with excellent warranty service. I also understand the inconveniences and cost if I need to order proprietary components from Canyon, but also that most of what is wear and tear I can get from any bike shop any where.
Felt? What do they offer and how do they sell in this environment? My only surprise in the bike industry is the huge number of incompetent brands that somehow lurch on year to year rather than a few once big names fading into irrelevance like Felt.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [Darren325]
[ In reply to ]
Darren325 wrote:
The bike industry is entirely clueless when it comes to retail. Canyon has a far from revolutionary business model, yet when it comes to this industry, they look cutting edge.
Say I want to buy a road bike...I visit Canyon.com, I am directed to the kinds of bikes they offer that suit what I'm looking for and I am presented with a list of prices. Simple, clear and easy. I did the same with Cannonade. I can't even tell what level of bike I am looking at...Do I want an EVO 1 2 3 4 or Hi Mod, is there a low Mod, can I get the EF version of the bike with fake stickers? Once I figure out how the bikes differ...I still cannot determine which bike I want as I have to find a dealer to get pricing. Then when I do find a dealer, if he or she bothers to reply to online queries, I am sure I will not be presented with a complete inventory in model, size and colour, and I will be steered to whatever version they have in stock. And then...I have to negotiate in the dark on price.
In the meantime, I bought my second Canyon with a few clicks, I know what I am getting and what I am paying for it. I know that it is a competitive price, and in my personal experience with my Speedmax, Canyon stood behind the product with excellent warranty service. I also understand the inconveniences and cost if I need to order proprietary components from Canyon, but also that most of what is wear and tear I can get from any bike shop any where.
Felt? What do they offer and how do they sell in this environment? My only surprise in the bike industry is the huge number of incompetent brands that somehow lurch on year to year rather than a few once big names fading into irrelevance like Felt.
You nailed this on the head. Given Lucy Charles just won Kona, I just want to browse Cube bikes. The whole site is a mess, and I can't tell which bikes are what or even what they cost. I just gave up.
Even Cervelos site is just bizzaro. First, the TT section has half the page taken up with a dramatic photo of a bike they don't even sell anymore. Then you get to choose the P series or the P5...series? Nothing about the difference between them or why I as a consumer would want one over the other.
I don't think all bike OEMs need to be D2C. But I should be able to go to their website, quickly find the range of bikes I'm looking for, and then see the MSRP.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [Darren325]
[ In reply to ]
Darren325 wrote:
The bike industry is entirely clueless when it comes to retail.Yeah, I agree that buying a high end bike is way more frustrating than it should be these days.
My past few purchases, I've just bought used. Not really because I was trying to save a buck. Just because I've tired of the hassle of new. Agreed that on public websites you have to scroll through pages of schtick that most of us knowledgeable people skip right over to get to any meat. And then the meat has effectively nothing to do with actual inventory. The last time I tried to buy new, I had to go sit and wait for the dealer to do database searches in the inventory for several brands. And then had to wait while he made several phone calls to make sure the non-public database was accurate, or if there was any held back inventory available for "bro deals." I appreciated the effort, but it'd sure be nice to have navigated most of that up front so I could have shown up with an idea of what was available.
I have all sorts of issues with Canyon, like inability to specify stem length on purchase. But they're one of the first sites I look at this days when window shopping, just because they're at least not customer-hostile like some brands almost seem to be.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [Geek_fit]
[ In reply to ]
Geek_fit wrote:
Darren325 wrote:
The bike industry is entirely clueless when it comes to retail. Canyon has a far from revolutionary business model, yet when it comes to this industry, they look cutting edge.
Say I want to buy a road bike...I visit Canyon.com, I am directed to the kinds of bikes they offer that suit what I'm looking for and I am presented with a list of prices. Simple, clear and easy. I did the same with Cannonade. I can't even tell what level of bike I am looking at...Do I want an EVO 1 2 3 4 or Hi Mod, is there a low Mod, can I get the EF version of the bike with fake stickers? Once I figure out how the bikes differ...I still cannot determine which bike I want as I have to find a dealer to get pricing. Then when I do find a dealer, if he or she bothers to reply to online queries, I am sure I will not be presented with a complete inventory in model, size and colour, and I will be steered to whatever version they have in stock. And then...I have to negotiate in the dark on price.
In the meantime, I bought my second Canyon with a few clicks, I know what I am getting and what I am paying for it. I know that it is a competitive price, and in my personal experience with my Speedmax, Canyon stood behind the product with excellent warranty service. I also understand the inconveniences and cost if I need to order proprietary components from Canyon, but also that most of what is wear and tear I can get from any bike shop any where.
Felt? What do they offer and how do they sell in this environment? My only surprise in the bike industry is the huge number of incompetent brands that somehow lurch on year to year rather than a few once big names fading into irrelevance like Felt.
You nailed this on the head. Given Lucy Charles just won Kona, I just want to browse Cube bikes. The whole site is a mess, and I can't tell which bikes are what or even what they cost. I just gave up.
Even Cervelos site is just bizzaro. First, the TT section has half the page taken up with a dramatic photo of a bike they don't even sell anymore. Then you get to choose the P series or the P5...series? Nothing about the difference between them or why I as a consumer would want one over the other.
I don't think all bike OEMs need to be D2C. But I should be able to go to their website, quickly find the range of bikes I'm looking for, and then see the MSRP.
What can`t you find on the Cube website? Found it quite easy to scroll through and find the bikes I am looking for.
They don`t sell in the US thus there is no prices, in Germany you have a SRP for every bike on the website.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [NordicSkier]
[ In reply to ]
NordicSkier wrote:
Sold my last Felt in 2016. Seems like a brand that was always a bit behind the curve since.
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?
How were they behind the curve? The rim brake Felt IA 'super bike' came out around 2014 and was ridden well by Rinny, Ryf, Amberger, etc.
Shortly after they added storage options (rear box) similar to trek, WR, etc.
Around 2018/19 they came out with the disc brake version, which was before folks like Trek, Giant, Cube, etc.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [SBRcanuck]
[ In reply to ]
SBRcanuck wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
Sold my last Felt in 2016. Seems like a brand that was always a bit behind the curve since.
I look at their Breed gravel bike and downtube entry for the brake cable? Is this 2018?
How were they behind the curve? The rim brake Felt IA 'super bike' came out around 2014 and was ridden well by Rinny, Ryf, Amberger, etc.
Shortly after they added storage options (rear box) similar to trek, WR, etc.
Around 2018/19 they came out with the disc brake version, which was before folks like Trek, Giant, Cube, etc.
I think they did well with the IA. Nailed triathlon, a plateau'd market segment at best. Dropped TT. Dropped the ball on the growing segments of gravel, e-bikes. Dropped mountain altogether. I think their aero road bike, the AR, is pretty good, but doesn't exactly stand out. IMO, they dropped the ball on the non-aero bike the FR. Most other brands have given their non-aero bikes aero touches, like Cannondale with the SuperSix. Not Felt.
Here is the pretty archaic cable routing on the mechanical Ultegra version of the 2023 FR. That doesn't fly in 2023, exposed metal cables down the downtube on a road race bike. I like it from a maintenance standpoint. But it's out of step with the industry.
Re: Felt Bicycles Sold Again [Runner117]
[ In reply to ]
I think you should update your search and navigation manners, both websites are as easy as they can come……
Jeroen
Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
Jeroen
Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
Felt used to be one of the worst sites I had seen, but now they have improved a ton.
Couple issues I have with the Cervelo site:
- There are multiple colors? Why can't I click anything to see the other color options.
- You want to actually see these colors, good luck finding a big image. Most are just thumbnails.
- Click bikes, scroll to model I'm interested in, click "view models", scroll to the model I'm interested in, click "see the bike" and I'm taken to a generic page, not the model I was looking for. Let's go hunt again....
Couple issues I have with the Cervelo site:
- There are multiple colors? Why can't I click anything to see the other color options.
- You want to actually see these colors, good luck finding a big image. Most are just thumbnails.
- Click bikes, scroll to model I'm interested in, click "view models", scroll to the model I'm interested in, click "see the bike" and I'm taken to a generic page, not the model I was looking for. Let's go hunt again....