Great Job, Good race report too! I'd love to run that marathon some day! Congrats.

Thanks.

I forgot to share my nutrition and hydration strategy in my race report. And, I think it's important have N&H plan for races over 2 hours. So , here's mine.

My home is in North Carolina and it was pretty warm for most of my training runs. My most common run was some variation or multiples of a 4.2 mile loop near my house. On these runs, I would line up water bottles on the trunk of my car and grab one after every loop. I held on to that bootle for the entire loop and I would take a swig of water about every mile or so. I probably ran 75% of my hometown miles with a bottle in my hand.

I brought one on my trusty water bottles filled with a gatorade/water mix with me to the race. While waiting for the race to start, I took sips of water and the bottle. I then discarded my trusty bottle at the starting line. I must have hit the port-o stall 6 times from 6am to 9am.

The hydartion stations at the marathon were located at every mile starting with mile #3. I took a swig of gatorade at the first one and water at almost everyone after that. I think I bypassed mile 9, 19 and 25. It was just like my regular runs, just without the bottle. By the way, I did not go to the bathroom again until 7:30pm.

As for nutrition, I trained with GU Lemon Sublime packets on my long runs. I would take one every 45-50 minute on these long runs. I took 5 of them with my to the race and took the first 3 on each40 minute mark. I didn't care if I had water with me, since was used to the taste and knew I would be drinking again in several minutes. I took only a little of the 4th one at the 2:20 mark and kept the 5th in my pocket.

All in all, nutrition and hydration were not an issue for me. I think that my long runs could have been a little better. In the future, my long runs will have more Marathon pace work during the second half of the run.

---

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

It's go time! Anyone else running the Suntrust Richmond Marathon on Saturday in VA?

Weather looks perfect with sunshine, 40 degrees at the start rising into the low 50's by the three hour mark, calm winds, 8 AM start on a pretty fast course. I've been injury free, trained consistently and met all my intermediate goals, using tested shoes and clothing, nutrition dialed, pacing plan ready. Damn... I guess if it all falls apart on race day I won't have an excuse other than I failed to HTFU!

Goal #1: Finish (as always)
Goal #2: BQ (estimating need at least a 3:05 as my qualifying standard is 3:10)
Goal #3: Sub 3-hours

I'll let you know how it goes.

I just found this thread, so I haven't chimed in about my plans. I just completed the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon last weekend and posted a race report on my blog.

---

http://stlifeontherun.blogspot.com
Official Polar Ambassador

SOOOO...WVTRIMAN how did it go?

2 out of 3 ain't bad right? I finished in 3:03:50 which should secure me a spot at Boston for 2013. I had a good race and didn't hold anything back. I was on pace through the half and then just faded a little too much to reach the sub-3 goal. I'm already thinking about a spring marathon and looking forward to using my current fitness as a platform towards that elusive 2:59.

For those looking for a smaller fall marathon, I have to recommend Richmond. Their event was very well organized and the support was awesome. The course is beautiful with lightly rolling hills and good roads.

Beer and ice cream time!

I really enjoyed the half. Agree that it's well organized and no hassles.

good job on meeting your goals. I'm jealous...and a bit pissed at myself for not going through with the full.

Question for you guys. It's about time to taper, but I'm not quite sure whether to go 2 or 3 week taper. My first year of trying higher mileage, and I'm feeling pretty beat up. That and I only took a week off after Augusta HIM before rolling into this. Okay, now that I'm done whining here's my quick background. During Augusta HIM training I was usually 25-30mpw. My weekly mileage for this has been (long runs in parentheses): 40(12), 45(13.5), 45(15), 29(11), 53(18), 58(13.1). This week I'm shooting for 64 and 20 on Saturday. All easy runs with the exception of racing several 5ks/half marathon.

During this round of training I PR'ed with a 19:54 5k, and a 1:33 half last weekend. I didn't taper for the half, just treated it as a long run. I felt pretty beat up at the start but finished it off strong (averaged 7:04/mile for the second half)

McMillian points to a ~3:16. Marathon is on Dec 11th. So do I keep going up to 70 next week, or start tapering?

Short steep taper seems to work better than a long gradual one for me. If you are feeling beat up, the thing to do is not to lengthen the taper, but rather to lose a bit of the intensity in the last few weeks. Don't go to the well as much.

If you are worried about not getting enough recovery, consider replacing the 20 mile long run with two ten-milers (one in the AM and one in the PM). You won't miss anything. And maybe one less 5k (at least) in the next few weeks. If it were me, I'd lose the half marathon too. If you must run it, do it at goal marathon pace, not race pace. And even then no closer than two weeks before race day.

I raced my fall marathon in Philadelphia yesterday. I have not done much racing the past year and decided to enter Philly in late August to give me a goal to get back some focus. My training for this marathon was rather unorthodox. I did get in some decent mileage (most weeks were around 70 miles with a low of 55 and a high of 85 between August and race week. What was different was that I coach the cross-country team at the high school that I teach at and my daughter is on that team. This meant that my training had to be fit around her training. I act as a pacer for my runners and spent 3 days/week pacing her and the other kids through repeat xc loops ranging from 400m up to 1000m with high intensity so I did no tempo runs and only one set of 2 x 3 mile that I would normally do for marathon preparation (my 16 year old daughter did manage to go 17:37 for 5k xc this season though and placed second at the OFSAA (Ontario high school) xc championship so that part was worth it).

Last week, as luck would have it, I came down with a sore throat and a bit of a sinus cold,which worried me a lot about how things would go on race day, but I decided to just go out reasonably hard and see if I could get through it ok. We were lucky with the weather in Philly because conditions were great. My brother was running the half and went out a little faster than me but I ended up using him to pace me for the second 10k. I went out in 37:29 for the first 10k and felt pretty good. I went by my little brother and continued on to a 1:20:19 half marathon split and still felt pretty good except for the abrupt stop to avoid a lady who walked right in front of me at about 13 miles just after the half/full split which seemed to tighten up one leg just below my hip. I started to slow a bit on the second half and did some running on my own since a lot of the people I had been running with were in the half. Things started to go south with about 7 miles to go. I think that te sius issues and effort were taking teir toll and I started getting some dizzy spells like a vertigo. When I look at my garmin results it was a 10sec/mile drop for a couple miles, then another 10 and then my last final four miles were 6:50-7:02 range so my sub-2:45 goal disappeared very quickly . I ended up going 2:47:38 which placed me 83rd overall and first in men's 45-49. I ended up 6 seconds ahead of second place and he made up about 4 minutes on me over the final 12k according to the online splits. I'm glad that a marathon is not 42.3k!

I think I may use this one to give Boston another go in 2013 since it is well after xc season so I can get back to more traditional training.

My taper was horrible. Did my last 2 miler on Thursday, Friday I woke up feeling like my leg had been smacked by a steel bar. Pain right down to the bone. Didn't sleep well for those 2 nights. Limped walking up a hill. Felt it up to the first mile on the Bridge. Then it was gone. Next time, I don't think I'll run at all after that last LTR.

I thought about that. You're running all that mileage then suddenly you're not. Your body flips out.

A week after the Marathon, I ran 5.2 miles. Was whacked the next two days. Did 10 miles for the entire week. It had worn me very deep (I'm 63).

But it's been two weeks now. I've run over 5 miles two days in a row. I think I can do it again tomorrow. Coming back is rough.

All of that said, around mile 4 tonight, my memory started playing the run through Bay Ridge. How much fun that was. I think I might do it again next year.

Allen,

While I'm impressed with your marathon time, I'm more impressed with your daughter's 5k time. Congratulations to both of you.

I passed up on Boston back in 1995 and 1996, so this time I intend to do it. I hope to get as fast as you by then.

Enjoy the off season.

---

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

"While I'm impressed with your marathon time, I'm more impressed with your daughter's 5k time. Congratulations to both of you. "

thanks. I'm impressed with her time too! What is also impressive is that she swims 18:55 for 1500m free on a long course pool so it will be interesting to see what her future holds.

I just stumbled on this guys blog about the race with a ton of AWESOME photos - http://thescenebegins.com/...moab-trail-marathon/

Even more incredible in person!!!

Dave

---

Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Finally made it to my off-season. Ran Rocket City on Saturday, went pretty well considering my training was less than ideal coming off Augusta. Nutrition was spot-on, didn't have any problems there. I knew 3:15 (7:27/mi) was a long shot, but I'd try to hold onto that pace group as long as possible. For the first 15 miles I was right on a 3:15 pace. When the course started to head back the wind picked up and I was running solo. From 15-20 I dropped to a 7:39 avg. 21-23 I fell to an 8:09. During the 24th mile the wheels came off and I slowed to a 9:10. Last two miles I sucked it up and got back down to an 8:09 and finished off with a 3:21. I knew going in lack of 16+ mile long runs would hurt me, and I could definitely feel it past 22.

First half was 1:37, second half 1:43. Not sure if that's a good second half, or if it should have been tighter to the first. Input welcome. Overview of my training is a couple posts up.

I really appreciate all the help in this thread/forum. I never would have been close to my time without it. My wife followed the same method and dropped 26 minutes off last year's marathon time as well. All thanks to running guru's on this board. Much obliged.

I know it is no longer fall, but I read this thread quite a bit in getting ready for my first open marathon in 15 years. Yesterday I ran the Surf City Marathon and finished with a 3:07:46 which was ahead of my goal time of 3:10 (current BQ). I ran a open half back in June and finished eight at 1:30, so I figured 3:10 was a good target. I was thinking of running a fall race, but I had a HIM A race in early September. I tried to hold a 1:35 pace in the HIM run and faded badly in the second half. So I decided I needed to spend some time building my endurance and hold of on the marathon.

I started really training in October at which point I was running about the same as I had all year, about 30 mpw. I steadily increased the weekly mileage through the end of the year. I think I had one or two weeks over 60 mpw and four or five more over 50. I had three main workouts each week. First was the long run which I ran about 40 seconds per mile slower than my goal pace. If I was feeling good I would try to run the last 1-2 miles at MP. I started with a long run of about 8 miles and ended up with two 22 mile runs before the taper. The second workout was a medium length "tempo" run. These built up to about 14 miles and the last one went like this. Warm up 2 miles, MP pace for 7 miles, 5-10 sec faster for 2 miles, another 5-10 sec faster for 2 miles then cooldown. My final workout was my "speed" training. I didn't start these until half way through my training. They consisted of 2-5X1-2 mile intervals at around 10K pace. I even did a set of Yasso 800's for fun. I filled the rest of my week with recovery runs that built up to 5 miles each. All my workouts, even the speed intervals, were done with a negative split.

The race itself was well run. It is limited to about 2,500 races with another 17,000 running a half that starts an hour later. The weather was near perfect. It is mostly flat with one short hill that hits early at mile 9. They had great support. There is about 5 miles of running on twisty paths through a city park and they had kids about every 50 yards making sure you knew where you were going. The only nit ws that they were serving Vitalyte, which worked fine, but a lot of the kids were calling "vitamin water" at the aid stations which got a little confusing.

I only had two issues with my day. First, despite making 4 trips before the race, I still had to make a potty stop at mile 2 that cost me probably 45 seconds, which I then felt like I needed to gain back over the next 3 miles. Second was at about mile 23.75 I got a really nasty side cramp. I was feeling really good just before then and probably picked up my pace too much. Probably lost 60-90 seconds from the cramp. It was so bad I ended up walking for a bit to get it down to the point I could tolerate the pain, then ran the next two miles about :40 slower. I was doing a lot of math in my head during those miles. It cleared up at about mile 25 and I finished the last half mile with a very strong kick.

So my time puts me 2:14 under my BQ, well see if that gets me into the race.

I'm sure BQ - 2:14 will get you in. In fact, the consensus of most people following it is that a mere BQ will get you into 2013. (I hope so, since meeting that mark for 2013 is my current goal.) Congratulations on a solid training plan and a great race!

---

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

just saw this... i don't think it was the lack of long runs per se but it was the relatively brief period at >50 mpw. You really just need more miles. You need a 12 week cycle at >50-60 mpw. Long runs are a part of that, but shouldn't be the focal point. In terms of your 1/2 marathon splits... don't kid yourself into thinking that a 6-min spread is well executed. Not horrific - certainly better than average - but not ideal. Your goal should be to have the first and second half within a minute. You probably could've had a 3:17/3:18 if you ran the first half a little slower.

I noticed that the 2012 Rock & Roll (Arizona) and Disney marathons had fewer BQ's this year. I hope your theory holds true because part of the Boston experience is having the ability to celebrate immediately after gaining BQ status. I'll never forget my first BQ (Paris, 2009). To have to wait it out is so anti-climatic. In fact, I'd rather see BAA shave off another 1-2 minutes than this whole wait-and-see nonsense.

Great job building your miles up Torrey. I hope to see you up in Boston next year.

---

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

I hope your theory holds true because part of the Boston experience is having the ability to celebrate immediately after gaining BQ status.

Yes, that's something I'll miss in the future--assuming that I have the good fortune of continuing to BQ.

I'll never forget my first BQ (Paris, 2009).

I've never raced abroad. I think I would find doing a European marathon memorable anyway, BQ or not BQ, simply because of the romanticism of it!

---

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

Hey Torrey, I just ran Surf City as well. Finished a stone's throw from you in 3:07:06. Great race!

I was also shooting for a 3:10 BQ. I hung with the 3:10 pace group for the 1st 9 or 10 miles, but moved ahead coming down the hill back towards the PC HW. Felt fantastic at that point so I upped the pace a bit to gradually pull ahead of the pack. Pretty lonely run up PCHW. I picked up the pace a bit more to catch a couple of guys up ahead to work with through the cross-winds, and still felt good so I kept it up and eventually lost them at the turn.

By about mile 16 I started to realise that the way I was feeling there would be no need to hold back the rest of the way. This was the 1st marathon I have run without hitting a wall of misery for the final 5K, and I had an absolute blast comming back down the bike path. Despite all the reviews I had read, I didn't find the public traffic on the path too much trouble to negotiate. Had enough left in me for a decent kick, with splits of ~4:10/km for the final 2K.
Used the Hanson plan, and have to say that it worked for me. Knocked 12 min of my PR. My only struggle with the plan was trying to get in a 6th run for the week. Between work and family I ususally only got in 5 runs per week. Averaged 40 mpw, with a peak of 56 miles. Longest long run was 19 miles, which was cheating a little bit (Hanson plan calls for a max 16 mile long run).

Quads are still sore today and going down stairs is painful.

On a positive note, about a year ago I was dealing with a major case of ITBS and was feeling like my running days were finished, and leading up to the race I'd had a fear that I might have another flare up and DNF it. I did have some tightness set in around the halfway point, but it was manageable the whole way. I credit lots of core excerise and stretching with getting me back up to speed.

Have to say I had no complaints about the race organization, and having a smaller marathon field start well in advance of the half made it so much easier to settle into my pace without dealing with early traffic. Great volunteer support, especially the school kids in the park. Also a nice group of great looking college girls with killer signs out on the bike path! Never tried Vitalyte, so stuck to water and gels that I carried.

See you in Boston 2013!

Congrats. You probably passed me somewhere in the last few miles. I would have been the one grabbing his side and going slower than I should have. It sounds like you felt like I did on the way back until I got the side stitch. But it was a great day and a great race. I agree no problems on the bike path for someone running our times, but I could see it getting crowded for the 4 hour pacers.