+1!

I'm still getting used to my new bike - a 2016 BMC Timemachine TM01 on Enve SES 7.8s. And,.... I'll be honest - I know that I'll embarrass myself when bringing it out to a collegiate sprint this coming January. But, what the hell! You only live once!

+2!
I've said that in many threads....none of these bikes are game changers in terms of speed, and its ridiculous to be searching after wind tunnel results that may not even be accurate or true. No one buys a $$$$$ bike thinking it is going to make them better. Even Rapp has stated that his Dimond is not necessarily faster than any other super bike, they are all fast, and other factors make the difference, position and setup, etc.

I can't stand it when I read posts like "I can't wait to pass those people on my cheap 2010 P2".....
Money and budgets are relative. 15k is a drop in the bucket to some (not me.... :( ). Good for them if they can afford it and help support the bike industry. And it doesn't ruin anything for the folks with lower budgets as there are still countless options at way lower price points, most of which are better bikes than the top bikes from 5 years ago.

I too have always been a fan of Dimond and some of the other new super bikes. May be pulling the trigger on a Brilliant soon..... The great thing about the cost is that it is going to really help me diet down since I won't be able to afford groceries.... :)

Totally agree, but some just, like to judge what others do all the time

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

For some people, part of the fun of the sport is discussing all the gear and tech that's available. Same in most hobbies involving any kind of equipment - if you go over to a gaming forum there will be people who spend as much time discussing what GPU or motherboard to upgrade their PC to as they do discussing the games.

So while it's correct that for most people the delta between a decent set-up and an optimised one isn't going to put them on the podium or even significantly nearer to it, that's also kind of missing the point...

Oh the irony.

Seems like a bit of a strawman, I think most people realize that gains for expensive upgrades are minimal and can't really be cost justified. That doesn't mean people can't enjoy the pursuit of those gains.

A Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex.

X 1000 ;)

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

The main reason I bought my Dimond was because it was different and cool looking. I didn't expect it to be any faster than my Trek Speed Concept, and it's certainly possible that it's not as slick as my SC. Any differences are going to be relatively immaterial as far as I'm concerned.

I posted a picture of my setup with my dual Hed H3+ wheels and I got PM's and comments stating a disc would've been the faster choice. That's great but I like the look of the H3+ and I like not having to worry about having the proper valve stem length and extenders due to the front and rear wheel accommodating different length valves. I'll give up the 10-20 seconds over 56 miles the disc probably saves me over the H3+ for that reason alone.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Agreed but can all expenses be justified just because you can afford them?

For an age grouper I have real problems getting my head around altitude tents and IHT devices, while for a pro you wouldn't be doing your job correctly if you weren't taking advantage of 'natural' assistance. I don't think it's about costly 'free speed' such as a disk wheel or a session in a wind tunnel, it's more about how you see yourself and what you're willing to do for a hobby.

Exactly -

Expensive toys are not for those that are good at a game - they are for those with well paying jobs. (or their Dad has a well paying job - ask my son)

I race on a 2012 BMC TM01 w Enve SES 8.9s. I'm thinking of upgrading to the new TM01, not because it is any faster, but because the redesign of the front end is GENIUS and will greatly simplify packing and re-assembly for destination races.

But spending money isn't the only thing that drives this. I was B2B this year in T1. I have a red/black on white Transition and it is sporting Flo 60/90 wheels with red stickers. The bar tape all matches and was nice and clean. My tri suit is a one piece that is also red/black on white.

My neighbors in T1 didn't notice (or at least comment) on the Shiv setting beside me with the brand new Zipps and the electronic shifting because to the casual observer my bike was a lot prettier. That is what they notice and that's what I go for, because like you said, the extra speed of the high end stuff will never affect my performance measurably. So I spend money on the pretty color coordinated stuff.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

The point is not how expensive the top-end gear is. It is how expensive competent entry-level gear is. The cost of bike gear has increased disproportionately from the economy and other manufactured goods over the past few decades. If anything, high-end bikes should be cheaper, because now they are semi-mass-produced in Chinese factories; but they had to be individually hand-built by Italian craftsman before.

Who cares if a Ferrari costs $300K today. What if a new Honda Accord cost $60K? This is the problem that we are dealing with in bikes and gear.

yep. love my 2014 cervelo p2. Does it make a difference over my road bike? Sure. Enough to get me to the podium. No. But I like it. It's fun to ride. Looks nice IMO. I get to buy all sorts of other gadgets for it. :) But for sure what makes this MOPer faster is training harder. I see plenty of other cyclists in races with less fancy bikes than mine but who are stronger cyclists and they pass me. A few watts here or there saved with my tri bike, aero helmet, and aero wheels is not what is holding me back. With that being said, I don't plan on buying another tri bike unless I totally wreck the cervelo in the next couple of years. I've only done HIMs so far and am doing my first IM next year. Once that's off my list, I'll probably just enjoy doing sprints and olympics and maybe one HIM a year.

Yeah, if you do make that upgrade -- skip the 2016 TM01 even though they are super discounted right now. The SES 7.8s are crazy wide and I probably spent like 5-6 hours sanding down brake pads and adjusting spacers to make them fit!

Living in the midwest I see it the same as boats. Coworkers give me hell for spending $3,000 on a road bike, but a few have a $20,000 boat and $30,000 pick up to tow said boat. Then the boat and truck only get used 1 day/weekend over 3 or 4 months, and that is being generous.

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I'll one up you on the 'fast old p2' and say straight up that for the TYPICAL AGer, you could be riding a 1980s tubed steel road bike with the cheapest set of clip on aerobars you can get, and using caged pedals, and still have negligible differences in your race performance compared to the uberbike setup.

I know at this point someone will say, "but wait - I missed the AG podium by only 7 seconds last race - that uberbike would have made all the difference!"

And to that, I'll say, yes, it would have made the difference JUST on that day. But the reality is that f you were facing stiffer AG competition that day (which is the reality for 95+% of AGers) just by the draw of luck, your uberbike setup would have meant squat beating that faster guy.

I'll also make note that a lot of really freaking fast AGers and pros post a lot on Slowtwitch, and often can comprise the bulk of responses. So it's not surprising to get like 10 responses from 10 different folks here, which include national-champion AGers or strong pros for whom those seconds actually DO matter a lot. I'm not talking about them - I'm talking about the typical 95% bulk of AGers who themselves aren't national champions or close to it.

The race wheels thing is the thing that always gets me the most. Race wheels are probably discussed more than any other piece of triathlon hardware (per my highly objective and scientific personal opinion!), with threads going into the tens of pages and hundreds of posts, yet the difference they make is sufficiently small for that 95% AG contingent that it's essentially negligible when you consider that the very cohort of 95%AGers who are buying these race wheels usually are the same ones who lose all those aero time savings by suboptimal transitions, riding out of the aero position, or an assortment of other race bungles that are eminently controllable and practiceable but don't give you the cool look of race wheels.

I know bike frames are considered amongst the least bang for buck in terms of aero gains, but now having being in triathlon for a decade, I'm ok with spending a lot for a frame. My 2008 P2c is like a new bike to me, even though I've ridden the crap out of it. Frames are sufficiently durable that you should 'go big' on your bike frame so you don't suffer upgraditis - you'll get to enjoy for 10+ years without much babying if you so choose. No need to skimp on that sort of investment.

I must be thinking of the 2017...the one with offset seatpost. The front end is very easy to remove. Pull out a couple of brake tabs, remove a bolt in the headset, and two on the side, and the whole front end slides completely off without any cables...GENIUS!!

And this is why someday I'll have disc brakes on my future entry level tri bike. I think they look cooler than my non-integrated P2 brakes.

But affordability and looks for the win. I'd like aero wheels at some point because they're really what makes a bike pop visually. Color matched, of course.

I just bought carbon fatbike rims - I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Well stated

Yup, the 17 is the new design. So much better. I bought mine 6 weeks before it was announced.... :-/!

You ride a pretty sorted Aero bike, but each new bike is a step further (though not always better). To get to the P2 cervelo developed a number of bikes each a touch more developed than the next. I had a P2k which was a quick bike and the P2 is a marginal improvement on that , but after so long these marginal improvements add up to a reasonable gain. For me in time trials as I get closer to my limit improvement wise each small step is significant. I don't earn enough to throw money around Willy nilly, but if I can get a performance gain for equipment changes I will take a look.

I currently ride a second hand plasma 3, but if a move to Speedmax or a premier tactical etc will get me closer to that 30mph average in 10's & 25's I maybe tempted to get the credit card out.

As are you. And jealousy is a very ugly trait.