Help! OK do me a favor

Frank in 100 words or less explain why your cranks work. Be very simple because I am very dumb.

Rip tell me why he is wrong in 100 words or less.

Thank you.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

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Greatness

"The One"

Perfection wrote: "How is that 40 per cent increase distributed in those four areas ? "

I don't know. This is one of many mechanisms that can account for the increases seen so the entire 40% does not necessarily come from this one mechanism. The tendency to lower cadences could also account for some of the increase. Someone needs to study this with pressure plate pedals to be able to account for all of the improvements.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

It is not possible for me (or anyone else) to explain the cranks in 1,000,000 words. However, if you will try them, you will understand why they work probably in l00 minutes or less. Then you will understand why some are so hostile to those who have never tried them but "know" what they are talking about. If you will be at Disney or Tempe this weekend, I will have a booth in both places. Come by and try them.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Oh God how true. Now if you will excuse me I have some cool stickers to get for my helmet.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

You can't explain the basics of your product in 100 words? I doubt that. Just explain the product.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Can you post the table you are talking about (cut and paste)? Or better yet the whole study?

Thanks,

Joel

[reply]
Perfection wrote: "How is that 40 per cent increase distributed in those four areas ? "

I don't know. This is one of many mechanisms that can account for the increases seen so the entire 40% does not necessarily come from this one mechanism. The tendency to lower cadences could also account for some of the increase. Someone needs to study this with pressure plate pedals to be able to account for all of the improvements. [/reply]

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But how did you get that 40% figure. Would a track
pursuiter 4K. be able to increase his wattage by 40%.
If a technique works, that 40% increase in wattage
should continue right up to pursuiting cadence, if not,
it defeats the purpose of the whole PC invention.

JC wrote: How about...

If your extensors are starting to fatigue you should recruit your flexors more. If your flexors are fried, you should rest them and use your extensors to a greater extent.

And I have a great invention... They're called standard cranks. When properly used, they allow a seamless transition between the two pedaling styles to occur almost without conscious effort. The rider can use an infinite variety of extensor/flexor contribution levels for his/her pedal stroke based on level of fatigue, power output, cadence, riding postition, etc.

JustCurious: Thank you very much. I think you and I agree that there actually is a case to be made for using hip flexors to assist the extensors in some instances. Your description of "properly used" cranks is exactly how I ride normal cranks...with the exception perhaps of "almost without conscious effort". I'm often actually thinking about it as I am going back and forth between actually pulling up, probably doing nothing more than pushing down, pulling up just enough to unweight the rising pedal, and many variations of all the above. I THINK this ability to rest some leg muscle groups while others are taking over at least some of the load is a beneficial thing, I can't see why it wouldn't be. It at least allows some recovery time for an overused muscle group when used a little too much, such as often happens to me in a race.

How one practices this and applies it is IMMATERIAL to the question. It isn't a PC question. Of course one can learn to do this at least to some extent on regular cranks....maybe to the maximum extent practically possible...that's not an issue, let's don't make it one.

I appreciate your effort to respond. How about anyone else? (Except Dr. Day...we know your opinion...I trust you'll understand why you are an exception here to this request for a response.) Yea, nay? Are JustCurious and I off our rockers?

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

What kind of post is that? Show some class "Greatness"!!

Ok, Mr. Tibbs, the product makes you use muscles you don't use very much now and makes you use them in a manner you have heard about but have probably never really done to any great extent. This training seems to improve cycling and running form but, even if it doesn't, whatever they do users frequently report substantial running and cycling improvement after several weeks (running) to months (cycling) of hard training work on them.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I got that 40% figure by doing some testing. I handed product out to some beta testers and asked them to ride as much as they could on them. I pretested using Conconi protocol using a calibrated Computrainer. In between 6 to 9 months I generally saw a 40% increase in power at the same HR as the pre-test across the board.

Subsequent to that I have received reports from users suggesting similar power improvements in similar time periods. Phil Holman (every bit as big a dissenter as any of the people here) agreed to use them exclusively and report back to the usenet group) (RBR, RST. In 7 months he increased his top speed on the track from 35 to 38 mph. This calculates to a 28% increase in power. He increased his pursuit speed from 30 to 32 mph which is only a 21% increase in power. Oh, and he improved to allow him to win a bronze medal at Masters World's. TTN was just as vigorous in his thought these were just a gimmick on Trinewbies (do a search, it is a matter of record) but was also open-minded enough to take up the challenge. I don't have speed improvement figures for him but I think you will agree he no longer thinks they are a gimmick. Goatboy does the same 12 mile TT once a month to test his current fitness. In one year he improved his speed on this circuit from 20 to 25 mph and the next year he improved again to 27 mph. This calculates to be a 95% increase in power the first year and an additional 26% the second year (that is a 246% increase in power over 2 years). I don't make these number up folks.

Will an experienced pursuiter gain 40% in 6-9 months? Probably not, because they are probably well above average on their technique now. But, can they gain substantially? See Phil Holman's results above. I think how much you get out of them depends upon how you use them. How hard are you willing to work?

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

It was a study by "Coyle". I am sorry but I do not have the exact name and title of the study right now. Maybe RIP can provide that info before I get to it in the morning. He does have access to it.

Frank, has anyone ever reported back to you that they saw no benefits from using the PCs? Certainly, there has to be someone out there. I mean, if everyone using them is improving this dramatically, wouldn't they be on EVERY serious cyclists bike by now and also be used by serious runners? Do you spend time on running forums trying to sell the PCs to runners?
Personally, as I might have said in a previous post, I am still in the testing phase of my PC use. So far, I am receiving no feedback from my body that these things are going to make me a faster runner (which is my main goal). In other words, no unusual hip or hamstring fatigue when running after a hard PC ride.
No difference in how my stride my feels, etc. I want to feel something different in my legs but I am just not getting that.
I DON'T believe that PCs are a gimmick. I certainly believe they work for some people. But I am also becoming more confident that they just may not be for everyone.

Most of the people who send them back seem to do so because they cannot adapt. I had one send them back because he got them to rehab his knee and his therapist told him he didn't want him using them.

I think maybe one person has sent them back saying he had done the drill and not seen improvement.

Peter Reid sent his back saying he could see the usefulness to a less strong cyclist than himself but that a good cyclist like himself didn't need them and he didn't want me using his name. Better cyclists than Peter have kept theirs though (and been pretty effusive about them and let me use their name even though i don't pay them anything) so I am not so sure what to make of that.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Skyman writes: "I mean, if everyone using them is improving this dramatically, wouldn't they be on EVERY serious cyclists bike by now and also be used by serious runners? Do you spend time on running forums trying to sell the PCs to runners? "

One would think so, wouldn't one. It has been amazing to me how hard such a tremendous advance has been to sell. I simply think it has been slow because the claims are so "outlandish" that they are seen as "impossible" even when good cyclists start to use them. Then, those who are using them are using them in training and keeping quiet. I don't know everyone so some who are winning are on them and even I don't know it. It is why I am now offering incentives for people to race on the cranks. Someone gets there ass kicked by someone on the cranks in a race and it will turn heads.

Am I at running forums? No. I had trouble convincing cyclists they were good because no cyclist thinks a triathlete is any good at cycling anyhow so, even though I might help a triathlete, this tool couldn't possibly help someone as good as me. Then a nay sayer, just like Winkle, except not an academic, takes the challenge and increases his speed on the track 2-3 miles an hour in 7 months and no one think it might apply to them. It is all gimmick or placebo. It is frustrating to say the least. So, why would runners be any different. And, if cyclists think the cost is high, what would a runner think, and they would have to get a bicycle also. No, I have decided the way to get the runners is through the coaches and teams. I am working on it. I expect it to be about as easy as pulling teeth at an aligator farm.

They may not be for you. You may be one of the space aliens. If you are looking primarily for running speed, I would encourage your to raise your seat real high so, when both feet are down your feet are tllted down about 30 degrees, as if you are pushing off and then ride at high cadences, the higher the better. You will be better reproducing the running motion this way, including the necessary ankling. Then after every ride, go for a short run to incorporate this into your running style. If you want I will put you in touch with a running coach who uses them in his business and I expect he might give you some hints gratis also (as a favor to me). Almost everything I know about PC's and running form I learned from him.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Okay, I haven't read any of these post's, but 8000+ views and 520 posts. $H!+, you guys are crazy.

Peace and love.

Skyman writes: "I mean, if everyone using them is improving this dramatically"

One more thing. Not everyone improves this dramatically. It is one of the reasons I am here. I have learned over time, not everyone uses them properly, especially if they don't have help getting through the transition. It is a lot easier now that there are others here telling them the same story. To get benefit from these things requires proper use and a lot of hard work. Customers, who have spent a lot of bucks to get better, come here to get advice on how to best use them, would they prefer advice from Winkle or me? People think I am here to sell them. I am not. I am here to help those who are interested to understand them (as best as is possible without using them) and to get the best use from them, if I can offer any advice. I am also here to learn from customers, to hear what they say, as I can't give good advice unless I understand what all the experiences are. Helping customers in improving to the full potential of the cranks will sell them. If people don't get value from the product, what good is it? Nothing else matters, as far as I am concerned.

If, after 90 days of exclusive use (which you seem to be doing) you do not see any benefit I welcome your report. I would be surprised but I am not trying to hide anything from anyone. Use them right then report on your experiences truthfully, that is all I ask.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

The name of the study:Physiological and biomechanical factors associated with elite endurance cycling performance. Credited to: E.F. Coyle, M.E. Feltner, S.A. Kautz........

What some don't want you to notice is that the two subjects I mentioned....well..Subject E used a maximum force of 422 N as compered to K's 320 N. Thazt's roughly 32% more force to produce only roughly 7% more power. Surely this is not an effective way to power a bike. Also the top subject required a peak force of 515 N to produce 376 watts. That is 60% more force to produce only 12% more power.

Some will try to say that these two subjects were more efficient based on their VO2. While they may be more efficient at producing power, clearly they are less efficient at getting their power to the pavement. The efficiency of the engine does nothing if this power cannot be effectively applied to the rear wheel.

The efficiency of the engine has little to do with the ability to transfer power to the rear wheel. Ever drive a car with a burnt clutch? Trashed torque coverter? The car doesn't move effectively now does it. Understand the difference now?

Skyman, I may have just missed this in an earlier post, but, what level are your finishes in a triathlon? Good AG'er, Good overall, top of the heap? How do your bike splits and running splits compare to the rest of the field?

Even if you are at the top of the heap, a coach in NC, that coaches triathletes that can break 16 minutes in a 5 K in a triathlon, told me that each and every one of his athletes set PR's after training on PowerCranks for a few months. At the time, he had about 170 athletes, and about 35 were training on PC's. Of the non-PC'ing athletes, very few PR's were being broken. I thought that was impressive.

I went from middle of the pack to top of the AG in less than two years, and I don't think I even use PC's "right". I just do most of my training on them, and don't even run very much. This year, I have 2 first place and 1 second place finish. In my last race, I had the fastest bike split and the fastest run split in my AG...beat the second-place fellow by almost 6 minutes. Since I'm an older man, and been doing this kind of stuff for decades, and PC's are the only significant change in my training...I can only attribute the change in results to something that PC'ing has done for me. Or, maybe my competition is simply dropping out/dying off ;) Actually, I know that's not the only reason, because my times on courses I've raced on year after year dropped significantly since PC'ing.

Anyway, you're doing the right thing...giving it a shot and seeing what happens. If they work, great, if they don't, send them back and you haven't lost anything. Keep in touch with your progress, or lack of it.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Yaquicarbo, I will say this, I am certainly not the fastest in the world, if I was, I guess I would not have a need to try the PCs! In races, I usually finish in the top 10 percent of all finishers. NOT top ten overall, but top 10 percent of all finishers. Interpret that as you may!

Let me ask you, during your initial phase of PC riding, did you have quite a bit of fatigue in your hip flexors, both during and after riding? Did you feel this on your runs also? I am just not getting this fatigue that everyone talks about. In fact, while riding the PCs, the first things that I notice some fatigue developing in is my hamstrings and calves. Maybe Frank could also help with this.

Also, I have noticed when standing and pedaling and really putting force on the pedals, I will notice a slight slip in the cranks. In fact, this almost caused me to crash once as I was at the top of the pedal stroke and the crank slipped back slightly causing me to back-pedal unexpectingly. Needless to say, when sprinting, this can be a little hairy! Everything is tight so I don't know why it would do this.

It's all placebo effect.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Tibbs wrote: It's all placebo effect.


Yep! Gotta love them placebos!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I interpret your top 10% finishing place as being fast!

When I first started, my anterior tibialis hurt as much as anything. I felt hip flexor and hamstring, and some very high calf fatigue as well. I could tell I had ridden them when I did brick workouts, but, it didn't seem to slow down my run at all to have pre-fatigued those muscles on the bike. One funny thing is, I had to sit down in the shower to wash my feet afterward...couldn't pick them up high enough!

Mine have never "slipped", unless I simply didn't get over the top of the pedal stroke before I pushed down...when that happens, you're screwed on that stroke...it's disconcerting, certainly. Don't know how to address that.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

"Gotta love them placebos!"

Can I score some placebos off ya?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.