"How tightly are the rules and mechanics governing the various NADAs coupled? So to what extend is USADA allowed to make up its own processes under the international umbrella?"

pretty much no variance allowed. for example, i asked travis tygart directly, if we are going to test AGers, why don't we stretch our dollars by scaling down the panel to the big stuff? let's not test for the stuff that is inconsequential to triathlon. like pot.

he replied that he has no freedom in that regard whatsoever. i think he would have liked to agree with me. that was the sense i got. but he had no way, as a WADA signatory, from veering from WADA's banned list at all, and the testing for everything on it.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

After reading your article, I found your words restrained on the USADA board, its previous, and only Chairman (Dr. Cohen), and his direction of the USADA.

...imho, it was certainly not under the best "captain of the ship" under his leadership, lacking the needed drive against PEDs spending too much time/effort/money on L.A. for instance, instead of education, and testing of athletes as they move up the performance chain, it would seem that the USADA under his leadership became too focussed on what has already happened, instead of what is happening now, and in the future....All Elite level/Professional sports are dirty to some extent, some more than others, money is not the issue whether an athlete takes PED's or not, it is the culture of that individual sport that pressures athletes into stepping over the line, but we must break the chain earlier, and make sure the next generation will see staying clean as the norm, not an option....if this means reaching down into high schools, college athletes then this is what they must do.

I'm hoping that Ed Moses as the new chair, will be able to steer the USADA ship in a more positive direction, and prevent at least in the public eye, the perception that they are focussed on a few individuals, instead of all athletes.

---

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

One exception, when the code doesnt specify one way or the other on the NADA's ability, the common legal practices governing the NADA's country can be invoked, at least as it was explained to me.

Just so I'm clear does that mean that everytime anyone is drug tested by USADA (or any other NADA) they test for absolutely every thing on the banned list?

---

Styrrell

And just when I thought I was important ;o( Do have a suggestion though, if you ever do get to charge for this service, you can advertise by giving a free thread for those to read before they pay......you know, the dirty little secrets one

What are you running in ? Hoka's, Vibrams, NB minimus, Nike Free, Newtons, Brooks Pureconnect, Saucony Kinvara?

We want to know and how your injury that you alluded to is coming along?

OK, carry on with the rest of this thread, but you wanted us to talk about sport, so I want to hear a report from the run that happened after the laptop lid was shut. I bike commuted home, after shutting the laptop with my rig that is a tri bike but with 32 mm comfort tires per Greg Kopecky's suggestions of building a comfortable training set up. I guess it helps to have a frame with no cut out.

"Just so I'm clear does that mean that everytime anyone is drug tested by USADA (or any other NADA) they test for absolutely every thing on the banned list?"

that's my understanding. unless USADA is being used in some other way. for example, if they were the testing vendor for, say, the NFL, then they're going to test for what the NFL wants. but it's my understanding that as a WADA signatory they are not allowed to offer a stripped-down panel (anti-doping lite) if it's a federation test. that doesn't mean every single banned drug gets tested. archery and shooting would have a different panel, as i understand it. we, in endurance sports, would never use a beta blocker. but a shooter would. however, we couldn't ask for a different panel than USADA would require for other triathlons.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

==> Hoka's

they tell me i have a tear in my medial meniscus. can go in and clean it up. trying not to do that yet. am running with physio tape. going to see how that works.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What tri bike can fit 32mm tires? Particularly what tribike brake and fork?

---

Styrrell

If USADA follows the same process followed by AFLD, the first step is a screening process to detect if there is a doping substance.
The second is a more in depth process to detect what substance was used if the first test came back positive. Usually it's a combo
of spectrography and chromatography.

---

--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fmcoaching.com / http://elpasotricoaching.wordpress.com

Here is some interesting feedback....newtons mega forefoot cushioning, vibrams not. When I warmup in vibams zero knee pain from last year's injuries (OK, maybe not zero, but almost zero). When I run with newtons, (or any cushion shoe), pain in my left injured knee till I get through the first 10 minutes (or I lubricate my knees by warming up on the bike). My doc says that there is some evidence that our muscles do the work to properly function and provide the right "cushioning" when we have better feedback from the ground....when the shoes are heavily padded, our muscles don't works as well. Think "thump thump thump" vs legs acting like springs (ex: wearing track or cross country spikes). Food for thought.

Having said that, once I am warmed up I am faster on cushioned shoes than vibrams...except if I run intervals on grass. Then faster on vibrams....not sure how anyone runs with vibrams on pavement....great training/technique tool for running on grass.

Dev

I seriously can't get why anyone cares anymore. Really the races happened, they are over, and most every cyclist that ever competed doped at one time or another. The USADA isn't ever going to be at the TdF, so they really don't have any input into how the race is run. This really is a case of one man using a legal means to try and make a big reputation for himself. He went out of his way to give pardons to a large group of dopers to get the one guy that would make him famous.

It would be a lot like me making a deal with all the other triathletes competing in my next race so I could get the overall win even though I'm fat and slow. Sure it'd cost me a lot of money since I don't have dirt on all the other athletes, but it's basically the same logic applied in a totally different way.

---

--------------------------------------------------------

You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

He gave out no pardons. They're getting sanctioned.

Rumor and innuendo. Anthony doesn't know who did/didn't get pardoned. You don't know who's getting sanctioned.

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

People are actually sending hate mail to you? Over LA and USADA? I think one would really have to mentally unstable to go as far as sending hate mail.

---

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Vaughters isn't everyone else is. Count on it.

"I seriously can't get why anyone cares anymore."

The next time you are invited to a party, upon first entering the room I suggest you not walk up to the first small cluster of people you see and loudly declare that you don't care about what they are talking about, and that you don't get why they care. Just politely listen for a minute or two and then wander over to the next group and see if maybe the subject matter they are discussing is more to your liking.

I recall reading an article about UCI doping control testing. It stated that not all the urine tests are for EPO. I'll try to find the article.

Either way, unified tests - justified or not - are just another reason why we need to get the large events to do their own testing. And given that events prefer clean appearance over real cleanliness, it's on other stakeholders to put pressure on them (mainly athletes and journalists).

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Welcome back!

I seriously can't get why anyone cares anymore.

I would respectfully suggest, that if you start to take this attitude or view of things, even one thing, you get out on a slippery slope. If this is "OK", where will you draw the next line?

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

This is absolutely true, I can't cite an article, but I can cite the following:

- The lance armstrong tests results posted by the athlete himself that show he was tested at different times for different things. As Dan himself said, when USADA and other NADA's act as testing contractors they can test for things other than what the NADA normally tests for. In this case, Lance was tested in some cases for the full panel, in other cases, EPO specifically, and in other cases, he was given blood profile tests for the UCI (Now WADA) Passport

- Vaughters has publicly gone at length into the various tests on twitter, indicating flatly that many/most pee tests done in cycling are not for EPO.

Thanks. I thought it was on INRG but I just emailed with him and he said no.

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

But this is not the area that worries you, right? I understood that the area that worries you with regards to USADA's processes is what happens after the chemical geeks determine that your pee is tainted: how you get charged, when evidence is presented, and how non-analyticals are handled. Or am I misunderstanding you?

I agree that scaling down the panel for the purpose of AG testing would be useful. But I think that at this point there are two discussions, both worthwhile having, that pollute each other: one is whether or not Lance's bust was "righteous" to use your words, and one is how to deal with AG testing. The first deals with the legal edges of the currently existing process, while the second is basically breaking new ground - I don't think there's a lot of thinking being put into non-elite testing in any sports but cycling and triathlon.

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

You lost me here......you talking about LA or TT making deals.....

Steve the line is drawn at personal responsibility. And no one in these cases has been very honest or responsible for their own actions. Some people are out to make fame and fortune for themselves and others are out to cover their assets. If there were no money involved no one would care. As a result I really don't care much either. The fact that ST needed one more thread about all this BS is very disappointing.

And the entire plea bargain process of getting sports to testify against other sports for special deals is wrong. It's morally bankrupt so claiming this is being done to clean up the sport decades after the fact is BS. It's BS when DAs and lawyers do this in any case. It's about a payday then too just on a smaller scale.

Take money out of the equation and no one cares except the competitors, kind of like your local Sprint TRI.

---

--------------------------------------------------------

You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.