I am trying to figure you what spelling mistake was in the title ??? Was it “the shit to fix his swim, or a chance to fix his swim.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

"have a shot to fix his swim" ?

  

Way way way back (2017ish), I had done some data for Lionel on his bike. When he started to work with Tower26, Gerry asked if I mind crunching some data and generating reports for him. It was 100% between me and him.

Gerry was tracking how Lionel was improving against about 10 guys, what groups he was coming out with.......

It didn't take long there was a net improvement. He did this for about a year.

Lionel will not be a front pack swimmer next year, but I have 0 doubt he will do better. Much better.

Going back to Gerry is a really smart move.

"have a shit" is better

Agreed, please keep the title as is!

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Fixed
Idk how the hell sh*t was in title lol

your auto correct goes to the words you spell the most?;)

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

He’s been talking about this since… well forever. But have never seen or heard of him doing a 6-12 month block of chlorine poisoning level training. I doubt he has ever swam more than 35k a week. The OG tri coaches who improve non swimmers to swimmers like Gerry, Paulo, Joel Filliol, Darren - they have bouts of 40k + and sometimes closer to 50k +. Also Snapping T has posted about this many times - he has never recovered himself enough from overtraining in the bike and run to do the proper training to get front pack in big races. Whether SnappingT agrees this is 40k + until he makes it I don’t know

Can’t teach an old dog new tricks so I am saying no. Would love to see some code chlroine blogs but imo no

Strava numbers “avg” 7 swims a week for ~23k yards a week. He doesn’t have the time to go all in on swim and basically go into hibernation mode for the bike and run. Not at this point in his career. He’s going to have to figure out a way to make his current schedule more efficient in the water. Sure maybe dial up the volume or specificity better but his only path forward is to get efficient to make the key chase pack.

The idea of him going all in to make the front pack is a pipe dream. No way he quits tri for the time he needs to go all in on the swim. So he’s got to work within those constraints.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yes. Oregon 70.3, Maine 70.3, NC 70.3, Augusta 70.3, Chattanooga 70.3...

This might be heresy on a swim specific thread, but does Lionel really need 40,000 yard weeks, or does he "simply" need to really improve over the first 200 meters or so? It seems to me that if he could hold the right feet for the first few hundred meters, he would be golden (at least in relation to what he did in the most recent PTO)..

In other words, he doesn't need to improve his swim over 1.2 or 2.4 or whatever as much as he needs to improve his swim over the opening couple hundred meters.

Am I the only one seeing things that way?

If Frodeno can manage the injuries he had in his 40s to come back to top form, Lionel can afford 6mo-1yr swim focus. I actually think he can’t afford not to, he’s clearly falling behind because of it.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

That's wishful thinking. Guess what it takes to improve your 200 LCM from 2:35 to sub 2:10 or even 2:05? lots and lots and lots of swimming volume.

Frodo has been a front pack athlete his entire career.
That’s probably a terrible example. I wanna know who’s taken a year away from the sport at this stage in their career ane suddenly a “front pack” athlete lol.

I’ll hang up and listen.

And also 6 month focus won’t get him anywhere close to front pack. Chase pack potential with iI is far more realistic and achievable. This idea that he’s going to go off into some swim cave and and find a front pack swim is unrealistic.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

How can volume teach you to get faster ??? By that logic wouldn’t the worlds best marathon runner run a very good 200 m?

Propulsive forward power - drag backwards resistance = total swim power ( speed)

He needs more total swim power to get faster.

He has a lot of forward power

He needs less drag backwards power. While it is a skill few naturally have and is hard to teach.

Why people have trouble improving after a short time swimming.

This is evident in swims with and without a wetsuit. Much slower vs others why increased body drag due to lack of body stability and float position.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Even if he spends time with Gerry, he will do something abruptly and change everything again after a few months. He’s looking for a quick fix. He’s not committed to the long term fix and consistency it requires.

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blog

Oh yes you’re right. Volume doesn’t really matter for a 3.8k swim followed by 7 hours of bike and running

Possibly this is true and I will defer to your opinion on this

However

this is a separate question to the one the OP raised , which is whether he has a shot / shit to fix his swim. Fix is the key word so we may have different views on what that involves

For a Kona podium man (which he is) fix has to mean being on the arse of the front pack?

So that means getting faster and making any benchmark sets and stanking like pool cthemicals

If he already does 23 km a week!!

Do you bike 1800 km a week to prep an Ironman

Or run 420 km a week ???

Pete Jacobs won Ironman Hawaii and was always a lead pack swimmer on 2-3 swims a week.

If you can’t do the skill how does not doing the skill longer make you learn the skill .

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I used to overlook comments like this but starting to agree. The guy crashed and then was basically out of the count for a month because of being sick. But he thinks food is the problem. Then starts eating better and gaining weight, and decides he needs more volume. Then after a bad race he decides he needs to improve his aerodynamics and efficiencies.

I really think he needs to find an overarching coach that can deal with him and settle him down while pointing him in the right directions like how to gradually improve things. But I doubt he’s going to find that. I think at this point in his career he’s seeing that the top of the game is getting away from him and he wants/needs a quick fix to get back with the game. But I don’t think there is one, he just has to stick with improving a couple key areas and not keep dropping focus on others. Easier said than done and I’m sure the videos don’t tell all the story.

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Pete grew up swimming and is an Aussie so has aquatic talent by virtue of his citizenship

His swim isn't his problem..

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

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Yeah,his problem is that the pro field is so much more talented now than it was in 2016/17 when Lionel was a force and his fellow athletes feared him.

But yes if you just swim 2-3 times a week and concentrate really hard on technique front pack is sure to happen