What he said, ditto. I see somebody in front of me, I hunt them down. I want to beat as many as I can. On the flip side, at my race, Boulder Peak Triathlon, pro racer Bryan Fleishman once let up at the end to let an 84 year old man (who had started 3 hours earlier) take the glory of the crowds admiration. It didn't affect Bryan's place in the pro race, showed a lot of class. In the some vein, Kloden is not an 84 year old age grouper. Go for the jugular Lance.

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Paul Karlsson
Race Director
Dig Deep Sports, LLC

I've done it and it was one of the most satisfying races I've done.

Got handicapped behind a lesser bunch (solo), caught them easily so they all knew I had the ability to blow their doors off if I wanted to. I lead their bunch for 16km and they struggled to hold my wheel (they took turns sitting on me ), come the sprint I lead out, when they attacked I moved to the back of the bunch then attacked and a 14yr old beat me.

No-one suggested he was better than me, they all came up to me and told me they had a great race, and the junior earnt his win.

It's one of the best races I've had.

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"There ain't no second prize"

I always let my girl friend beat me.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Allen Wrote: I don't think that it was right for Armstrong to openly state that he let someone win a stage but personally



Allen, I believe this is the only reason most folks are upset... The "leader" giving a stage win is never looked upon as negative by those not suffering from ignorance of the traditions of the tour. I know Lance was not the "leader" at that point, but the main point of disrespect are his stupid arrogant remarks following the stage.



As far as letting someone win, in most cases I'd say HELL NO! But you're talking about a one day single stage event and attempting to set that into the context of a 21 stage [day] event. Can't do it that way... apples and oranges. But to put it into perspective in triathlon, at IMCDA this year, I passed a few in the last quarter mile and caught another with less than 80 meters to go. He's was pissed and made a comment or two before I realized that after all, the finisher photos are a HUGE part of the day and me passing him in the last few meters would accomplish NOTHING meaningful to my overall day or performance, but it would possibly destroy any chance of him getting a clean finisher photo. Of course this whole slowing down thing was a very new experience for me as I'm a former 800 - mile runner and the last thing I can think of in the last 400 meters is going slow, but it took me no more than a split second to realize that it was much more important for me to show some respect and see the bigger picture in that by slowing just a touch, I'd not rob him of his chance to get a really nice finisher photo. One that didn't include my ugly mug! So, to answer your question, yes I have slowed to let someone else win. No big deal.

I think when the competition stop working against you and start working against eachother because it's well accpeted that you are in a different league, then it is time to be graceous.

I doubt the sprinters will agree with me, and my concept comes from my beleifs in Christianity, however I feel that when there is nothing to gain by winning the stage, that it's better to be graceous and let the other guys fight it out.

I had nothing to gain by blowing the doors off a grade after decimating them on the road, so I gave them a chance in the sprint (the kid did well too). I'll do it again next time (with a bigger handicap).

From the other perspective, I've had a race where my competitor was spent, I cheered him on to stay with me, he strugled and complained about the pace I was setting. He sat on for the final lap (11km). 2km from the finish he pulled up next to me and said "You've had a really strong ride, I'm not going to contest the sprint", as a sprinter he had refueled for the sprint, but recognised I had allowed him to sit on me (I told him to imagine it as motorpacing). We rolled over the line 1,2 and it was understood by the spectators that I had gained his respect in how I rode.

Winning isn't nearly as much fun as showing grace.

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"There ain't no second prize"

I kind of have a different take. I don't want anyone to hand a victory to me. If I win, I want to know that my opponent tried their hardest.

Tibbsy--haven't I heard you mention a wife?

Are they good beatings? Does she leave marks?

Our safety word is 'Cervelo'. ;-)

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I think the whole who let who win thing is people who openly dislike Lance have nothing else to slap him with. He is riding an amazing race and hitting him with tradition is the only thing they have. It really sad.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Which is why I said "when there is nothing to prove".

If the competition are competitive, then I agree, give them a run for their money. But if you're leagues better than them, then is there much to gain by winning with ease?

I could have massacred that bunch if I'd worked with them and approached the sprint with more aggression. I would have dropped alot of them and won the sprint by 5 or 6 lengths, but would they respect me for parading my ability over a bunch which already accept I'm in a different league?

They had enough trouble sitting on my wheel and I made the race more competive for them (rather than finishing on their own).

The sprinter who rolled over the finish with me? It was clear to him (and everybody else) that I was doing the work and he was strugling to stay with me. Rather than take the glory for my effort, we finished together (having droped the other riders in the race).

A two weeks later I got a flat in a race, he stopped and gave me his wheel.

Showing grace is much more fun than winning.

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"There ain't no second prize"

How are you "leagues better" than and could have "massacred" the competition, but finished right behind each other. Seems like you are in the same league to me.

I started solo with a 90sec handicap and caught them at 2/3rd distance.

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"There ain't no second prize"

""Showing grace is much more fun than winning.""

can't disagree with that, but my focus is; winning with grace is more important than simply winning at all costs... it's obviously possible to win and not be the first across the finish line, but when you are the first across the line, you should also be the first to congradualte your competition with grace and respect.

"I always let my girl friend beat me."
I let my GF beat me too, but what does that have to do with racing?
Sorry it took so long to post this, I was tied up...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Never been in the position of having the choice of allowing someone else an overall win and chances are I never will. There have been occasions though where I have been pulled along by someone who slowed up a bit on the run to offer some encouragement and I've done the same a few times. I got a nudge like that in one of my first events and it truly changed my perception of what this can be all about. For someone like me, it is more than a race.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

Funny, I always let YOUR girlfriend beat me, too!

Sorry, Hid, couldn't resist such an easy joke!

I let people beat me all the time. Two races ago, a 50-something woman (she was the last part of a relay, and her name was Joyce), and I were coming to the finish line together. No way was I going to pass her in the last 50 yards....her fans were going nuts cheering her on...apparently she is well known to them. Also, if anyone is in an AG older than me, I don't contest the sprint, but, I happily blow the doors off the youngsters...when I can.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I think that a lot of this has to do with the current Lance-bashing. In 2002, he tried to give the mountain stages to Heras and Rubiera because of all the work they did, but ended up having to take the win because Ullrich or someone else, who had sat-in all day long, went for it.

There is nothing wrong with giving the stage to a team member to thank them for their hard work; there is nothing wrong with giving the stage to someone else who has had a great day and is not a threat to you in the GC. However, Lance was being chased down by the top three GC contenders, and despite what we've all been saying, the race isn't quite over. It was his stage to take or give away, as were the last three. Giving it to Kloden, after Kloden sat in most of the day, would have been unfair to Landis. Landis deserved the win, Kloden wanted the win, Lance took the win.

Many people see this as arrogance on Lance's part, and it may be to a point, but he clearly has the power to decide who wins the stages, and he knows it. I think a lot of people resent the fact that he is so much better than everyone else that he can make such decisions.

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"I think a lot of people resent the fact that he is so much better than everyone else that he can make such decisions."

That of course is the correct answer and of course you are the one to state it so clearly.

Good job, Johnny Marr was wrong about you.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I will let a fat woman, much older man or small child win so they are not in my "finish" picture. Otherwise it is obvious I am DFL again.

Yes I've let others win, and no I've not let people win.

You're comparing apples to oranges when you speak of a one day race vs. a three week stage race. Therefore your analogy isn't applicable.

As I've explained before Armstrong didn't "need" to win. It was most certainly his choice to win and he decided to win at what appeared to me out of spite and anger. A sort of rub it in attitude. This attitude plays itself out when he states "I let Basso win" and "I don't think Jan waited for me."

There is such a thing as being a grace and humble champion. Every person is different in how they want to win. Some win at all costs by passing people in the finishing chute pushing over people to gain a 1/2 second and one place over someone. If that's what make you feel good...great...but think about how it reflects on you.

During military school it was drilled into our heads the concept of being a gracious and humble leader and victor when it was clear that the battle had been won. A perfect example given was when the United States won the Cold War over the Soviet Union. Yeltsin called Bush on Christmas Day and announced that they in essence, were surrendering. Now Bush could have gotten on TV and gloated over this victory. Instead he took the route of valor and chose to let this victory play out in a humble manner.

There is no doubt that Armstrong has dominated the Tour 6 times. There is no doubt that barring any unforeseen calamity, he will win his 6th tour. He worked hard and deserves it.

As I've said before, sometimes the measure of a man is not doing what he is capable of doing for the sake of allowing others who have worked just as hard as he to get a piece of the pie.

Funny that you mention it. The last race I was in I "let" 67 people beat me. Aren't I magnanimous?

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"One thing I have found there are just two ways to go
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow"- Robert Earlk Keen Jr.

Good question. In races that I've trained for and care about, I don't let anyone beat me. They do it because they're the better athlete that day. I've had plenty more 2nd-5th places than 1sts, and I'll take the wins I can get.

It may be a cliche, but the taste of victory is sweet. Once there, you want to return.

In races I'm in for training or just for fun, I'm happy to cross the line in whatever place I might wind up, and I don't sprint for the line.

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Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD

"As I've explained before Armstrong didn't "need" to win. It was most certainly his choice to win and he decided to win at what appeared to me out of spite and anger. A sort of rub it in attitude."

I don't think he'd disagree that it was out of anger. After watching the stage I must say that I thought he did exactly the right thing. Landis pulls the group all the way up the hill, essentially by himself. Kloden and Ullrich not only didn't pull at all but were sitting in at the back. Armstrong gives Landis the go ahead to go for the win. Ullrich bridge up then immediately waves Lance around and refuses to work which allowed Basso and Kloden to catch back on after they were dropped. Kloden had done no work at all until the final sprint and then tries to pimp the win, which of course would have given him the 20 second bonus to cut into (Lance's acknowledged friend) Basso's lead for second. Lance's comment was, "At that point it was game on." Which I'm pretty sure is the television approved version of "Fuck that".

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Interesting comments regarding his win from his coach, Carmichael. In a way goes in line with what I've been thinking.

"I could say Lance wanted to win today’s stage for the 20-second time bonus, but I’d be lying if I did. He sprinted to win Stage 17 because he’s a fierce competitor and he saw an opportunity to cross the finish line first. He won today because he could, and this time the 20-second bonus is just a nice perk."

"Armstrong seized the opportunity and won his third stage in as many days. It wasn’t for the time bonus, nor was it an effort to help Basso retain his margin over Kloden. Lance saw a way to get to the finish line first, and the competitor within him always wants to win."