Deciding on Super Shoes

Dec 19, 23 6:36

Post #1 of 23 (1771 views)

As I’ve gotten more and more into endurance sports, I’ve been learning more about what is and isn’t needed for gear, nutrition, training, etc. I’ve also learned that I’ve made a lot of mistakes with my running shoes since I started running back in 2016.

Fast forward to present day, I’m still trying to figure out what super shoe is best for me. I train in Saucony Triumphs, which I like a lot. I also will do some tempo-based runs in Carbon X3’s, which I’m not a huge fan of - I have ran all of my races in Nike Alphafly 1's, with the exception of my Ironmans, which I wore Saucony Triumphs.

The one and only marathon I ran in my Nikes (October 2023), they left a massive and very painful blister on my left foot. I also just raced a 15k and they hurt the arch in my left foot as well.

I’ve put about 150 miles on them since I first got them back in April 2022. With that being said, I’m trying to figure out what my next pair of carbon-plated super shoes will me. It's very impressive to me how much faster of a runner I am in my Nikes compared to my Sauconys. However, I’m really not a fast runner at all, but they certainly help. I am a woman in my mid-30's, and my race PR times are the following, if that puts anything into perspective
Ironman Marathon PR: 04:42
Marathon PR: 03:58
Half-Marathon PR: 01:48
5k PR: 00:22:03

I really do like my Nikes, but don’t want to deal with blisters or arch pain - I have somewhat flat feet, which may be a contributing factor. I plan on waiting until February/March to buy my next pair of shoes considering I won’t need them until April and want to wait until newer editions come out, but I’m at a loss of what to get. I don’t want to buy and return 10 different pairs of shoes just to figure out what I like the best. A local university's kinesiology lab offers a gait analysis, so I’ve considered that, but any help regarding what and how to decide would be great.

I’ve considered the following:
-Nike Alphafly
-Nike Vaporfly
-Asics Metaspeed Sky
-Asics Metaspeed Edge
-Saucony Endorphin Elite
-Adidas Adizero Prime X 2

Pros/cons, or thoughts regarding how you all figured out which shoe to get? Thank you in advance.

Last edited by: BigDoeRehab: Dec 19, 23 6:40

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 6:45

Post #2 of 23 (1759 views)

I race in the Vapor Fly 1 and 2 and have never had a problem.

I have a pair of the Saucony Endorphin Elites that feel great but I have not raced in them. They are great shoes but my Nikes are so good that I haven't used the Sauconys for a race (yet).

The Alpha Fly 2 has been a blister factory for many (most?) people. Based on reviews I have never been interested in this shoe. However, reading the reviews for the Alpha Fly 3 have me thinking about trying it out. It sounds pretty amazing.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 7:00

Post #3 of 23 (1730 views)

VaporFly have been good for me in Nikes. Had arch issue with the Alphafly like many others but added another insole and it went away. Those are now my race shoe of choice. I really like Adios Pro 3 and PrimeX but with my data from Stryd says Alphas are most efficient for me and the fastest. I like Adios Pro 3 more that Vaporfly as well for longer distances. PrimeX is good too but thought Alphafly were better. Haven't tried Saucony, outside of Pro 1, or Asics race shoes.

Twitter - Instagram

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 7:15

Post #4 of 23 (1714 views)

Another vote for Addidas pro 3. After one run in the pro 3, I gave an almost new pair of VaporFly3’s away. I raced all of 2023 in the pro 3, including two half’s and a full, and countless shorter local races, and can confidently say it’s the best shoe for me, in over 40 years of running. I’ve been training in the prime x strung, and love them, but not enough to race them. My next trainers will be the PXS2’s. The VP’s and Hokas killed my knees, and woke up an old stress fracture. I’ll continue to race in the pro 3, and hope they never quit making them.

Athlinks / Strava

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 7:58

Post #5 of 23 (1679 views)

BigDoeRehab wrote:

Pros/cons, or thoughts regarding how you all figured out which shoe to get? Thank you in advance.

Is there a shoe store around you that carries a bunch of different brands? I had to go to a couple different stores to cover most of them and then had to go to Nike directly. I didn't love any of the pairs I tried on until I went to New Balance and put on the wide version of the SuperComp Elite which is what I run in now.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [Lagoon] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 8:04

Post #6 of 23 (1673 views)

Lagoon wrote:

BigDoeRehab wrote:

Pros/cons, or thoughts regarding how you all figured out which shoe to get? Thank you in advance.

Is there a shoe store around you that carries a bunch of different brands? I had to go to a couple different stores to cover most of them and then had to go to Nike directly. I didn't love any of the pairs I tried on until I went to New Balance and put on the wide version of the SuperComp Elite which is what I run in now.

No! That is the problem. There aren't any stores within at least 45-60 miles of me that carry any super shoes whatsoever - that's one of the reasons why I'm in such a conundrum. I don't have the option to try them on, walk/run on a treadmill for a minute to see how they feel, etc. I just buy a pair online and hope that they fit and feel right.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 11:00

Post #7 of 23 (1564 views)

If you are curious I would say buy from RunningWarehouse.com. Get a pair then test them out on the treadmill. If they do not work return them. I think after they are worn you only get store credit which is fine since you will buy another with that credit anyway. Nike has a good return policy too. I used that the first 2 times I bought the Alphaflys. I REALLY wanted to like them both times so tried them on many runs but once I realized they didn't work I returned them. I know there are those that don't like when people do that but my feeling is it is ok if you are actually wanting to keep a pair. Not like you are taking advantage of a return policy just to use a pair of shoes for a bit then return them.

Twitter - Instagram

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 11:49

Post #8 of 23 (1532 views)

Alphafly 3 is coming out on Jan 4 and I've been waiting for them. Check out reviews on youtube. Magic is back.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 12:13

Post #9 of 23 (1512 views)

The AlphaFly, Vaporfly, and Metaspeed Sky, have all been testing the best in the lab. It seems like the other shoe companies are making some progress & that it's better to have a pair of super shoes, even if it isn't one of those, versus trainers. Hard to ignore the running economy data. As far as blisters go, I would maybe invest in a pair of super shoes to do workouts in 1-2 days/week. Ideally they'd be the same as your racing pair. & maybe do your last shakeout run in the race shoes.

It's hard to figure out which shoes you respond the best to without time/money. Scientific Triathlon Pod suggests a treadmill test as follows: 20:00 easy warm up w./ 2:00+ (up to 5:00-6:00) @ open marathon pace + strides, 4 x 5:00 @ open half marathon to marathon pace (settle on 1 pace for the whole test) w./ 5:00 standing recovery (alternate shoes a/b/b/a & then analyze heart rate data -- even 2bpm is significant). Unless you go to a lab something like that could help an amateur runner but it would still be ideal to have 2 different pairs with no miles on them.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 13:51

Post #10 of 23 (1469 views)

Like you, I do my long-ish training in Saucony Triumphs. I race in Saucony Endorphin Pro and they seem fast to me and cause no problems (blisters, arch issues, instability). But the conventional wisdom is that the SEP are not the fastest supershoe for most. But I prioritized a fit that I was pretty sure would work (other Saucony models work great for me) over the uncertainty of the fit vs maybe more speed (Nike, Asics). I have not tried the Endorphin Elite, but I need (want?) a new pair of race supershoes for 2024 and might go for the Elites...

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 14:09

Post #11 of 23 (1452 views)

I'm hooked on the Endorphin line. I started with the Speeds, and then switched to the Pros for racing. I now where the Speeds and Booked Hyperion Tempo for training and the Pro3 and Elites for racing. Are they faster than the Nike's I can't say as I have never worn but they work for me are comfortable, no feed issues and I ran a Boston CR and a PR at Berlin this year wearing them. I am also female.

Last edited by: hiker726: Dec 19, 23 14:10

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [s13tx] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 15:30

Post #12 of 23 (1407 views)

s13tx wrote:

Alphafly 3 is coming out on Jan 4 and I've been waiting for them. Check out reviews on youtube. Magic is back.

You and me both!

Let food be thy medicine...

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 15:59

Post #13 of 23 (1389 views)

You're going to get a bunch of this worked for me with the next person saying it didn't work.

If you look at the research you'll see the slower you run the less help you get and in some recent research there were even non responders aka they ran slower in the super shoes. Unless you're not a responder you will see anywhere from .5% to 7% but typically the person who is running 50-60 min perm 10k will see up to a 1.5% improvement.

Your best bet is go into your local running store and try on as many as you can. Walk around in them, run around the store in them, spend 3-5 minutes per shoe. You'll get an idea if you like the shoe or not. If you do, set it aside. Go to the next pair. Do not compare shoe to shoe yet. Eval each shoe as you put it on for as yes/no.

After you get 2-3-4 pair you like then do some A/B comparisons. Buy the pair you like the best.

This is what I do when I'm fitting pro runners, pro triathletes, NCAA xc & T&F runners to the person trying to break 24min for their first 10k.

Hope that helps

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 16:05

Post #14 of 23 (1382 views)

Ha - Saucony Triumphs are cushy, heavy megashoes (that actually don't feel that cushy to me) and are in a totally different class than the supershoes. They will be a lt slower for sure. I have both and have relegated my Triumphs to only easy treadmill runs, as the adjustment to AF is too extreme.

I don't think you'll suffer the blister problem if you just train in the shoe you race in. For AF this does get pricey, but I've found AFs hold up really well in training - my pair with 400 training miles is still going really strong (actually feels better than my near-new AF2, but most reviewers found this to be the case too.)

High hopes for me for AF3, and am planning to do the vast majority of my run miles in them, as I did with AF1. They actually 'save my legs' and more importantly, my joints better than any of the maxishoes, so they've made maxishoes obsolete for me.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 23 18:34

Post #15 of 23 (1330 views)

desert dude wrote:

...... to the person trying to break 24min for their first 10k.

Pink?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 9:27

Post #16 of 23 (1155 views)

I mostly like Saucony, Brooks and New Balance shoes. That is my bias due to the fact that I find that the fit and quality of Nike's and Hokas is severely lacking. If I'm going to pay top dollar I want shoes that will be fast but that will also last more than a couple of hundred miles. As far as Adidas I really like them but find them to be overpriced. All that being said here is my rotation:

Training: Brooks Hyperion Max
Tempo: Brooks Hyperion Tempo
Racing: Saucony Endorphin Pro 3

For racing I found that the Saucony Endorphin Elites were a bit too stiff for a marathon distance (in my opinion). The Pro 3's are soooo light, comfy and fast for the marathon distance that I find them a better value than the Elites. I actually rotate through all these shoes for speed sessions but only use the Hyperion Max for longer training runs. The Max is probably one of the most underrated training shoes of 2023.

For point of reference I am 52, 5'10", 155 lbs. and I run about 25-30 miles a week unless I am training for an open marathon when it goes up to 35-45 miles a week. I am also a heel-striker. My marathon pr is 3:11 but my most recent open marathon (this fall) was 3:20.

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 13:55

Post #17 of 23 (1082 views)

japarker24 wrote:

desert dude wrote:

...... to the person trying to break 24min for their first 10k.

Pink?

Nope. Have helped a lot of people with shoes for that. We have a lot of fire/police/sheriff academy cadets who have to hit a 5k time standard to pass. When you need to shave off :15 to stay employed super shoes are a last ditch option

Now the question can be do those people really need to have a 5k time standard i the first place?

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 13:56

Post #18 of 23 (1080 views)

desert dude wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

desert dude wrote:

...... to the person trying to break 24min for their first 10k.

Pink?

Nope. Have helped a lot of people with shoes for that. We have a lot of fire/police/sheriff academy cadets who have to hit a 5k time standard to pass. When you need to shave off :15 to stay employed super shoes are a last ditch option

Now the question can be do those people really need to have a 5k time standard i the first place?

But you typed 10K.....

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 13:58

Post #19 of 23 (1078 views)

japarker24 wrote:

desert dude wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

desert dude wrote:

...... to the person trying to break 24min for their first 10k.

Pink?

Nope. Have helped a lot of people with shoes for that. We have a lot of fire/police/sheriff academy cadets who have to hit a 5k time standard to pass. When you need to shave off :15 to stay employed super shoes are a last ditch option

Now the question can be do those people really need to have a 5k time standard i the first place?

But you typed 10K.....

hahaha I didn't catch that! My bad. I've helped a few sub 28 10k runners get into shoes. But many more people trying to break 24 minutes for 5k!

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 15:47

Post #20 of 23 (1029 views)

lightheir wrote:

Ha - Saucony Triumphs are cushy, heavy megashoes (that actually don't feel that cushy to me) and are in a totally different class than the supershoes. They will be a lt slower for sure. I have both and have relegated my Triumphs to only easy treadmill runs, as the adjustment to AF is too extreme.

I don't think you'll suffer the blister problem if you just train in the shoe you race in. For AF this does get pricey, but I've found AFs hold up really well in training - my pair with 400 training miles is still going really strong (actually feels better than my near-new AF2, but most reviewers found this to be the case too.)

High hopes for me for AF3, and am planning to do the vast majority of my run miles in them, as I did with AF1. They actually 'save my legs' and more importantly, my joints better than any of the maxishoes, so they've made maxishoes obsolete for me.

This is one of the most wild takes I've ever seen on here. You're suggesting for a person to run nearly 100% of their miles on a pair Alphaflys if that's their race shoe?!?

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [AZDesert] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 15:56

Post #21 of 23 (1024 views)

AZDesert wrote:

lightheir wrote:

Ha - Saucony Triumphs are cushy, heavy megashoes (that actually don't feel that cushy to me) and are in a totally different class than the supershoes. They will be a lt slower for sure. I have both and have relegated my Triumphs to only easy treadmill runs, as the adjustment to AF is too extreme.

I don't think you'll suffer the blister problem if you just train in the shoe you race in. For AF this does get pricey, but I've found AFs hold up really well in training - my pair with 400 training miles is still going really strong (actually feels better than my near-new AF2, but most reviewers found this to be the case too.)

High hopes for me for AF3, and am planning to do the vast majority of my run miles in them, as I did with AF1. They actually 'save my legs' and more importantly, my joints better than any of the maxishoes, so they've made maxishoes obsolete for me.

This is one of the most wild takes I've ever seen on here. You're suggesting for a person to run nearly 100% of their miles on a pair Alphaflys if that's their race shoe?!?

Totally not wild. Tons of pure runners especially marathoners do exactly this for these reasons. Google it you’ll see.

From experience I think it’s actually really high injury risk to train in another shoe and then race in the alphafly as it pushes you so fast and has a slightly weird geometry that your legs have to get used to.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 16:55

Post #22 of 23 (998 views)

I’m full time in super shoes (AF) as they minimize joint impact and quicker recovery (age 57). I’ve got several pairs of AF1’s and get >500 miles on them. Currently running in AF2’s and not as fun. Very much looking forward to AF3.

Re: Deciding on Super Shoes [BigDoeRehab] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 18:18

Post #23 of 23 (966 views)

I have raced in all of them except for the Endorphins, but Vaporflys 2 are my favorite by far. The Endorphin series gave me PF twice, so I am not touching them.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

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