The bike companies like auto companies have to make money, not cater to race car drivers. The bulk of the market needs a moderate performance Jetta/Golf not a high end Porsche or an F1 V12. Just size down and use a long stem and let the bike companies service the bulk of the market!

Just out of interest, which bikes do you consider in the bracket of 'superbikes' ?

That's actually really interesting. Do you have the data that supports this and would you mind sharing?
thanks.

http://www.tririg.com/...lized_Shiv&num=9

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

^ First you post this


^ Then you post this.

The two don't match. This is an aggressive position. It might be your fastest and most comfortable - I'm no aerodynamicist and no fitter - but it's definitely an outlier.

Plus, even if it was tested fast, there might be a position that's as fast that doesn't involve turning you into the hunchback of Notre Dame...

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

Just a few posts up, he talks about the testing he's done in the wind tunnel.

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-Stephen in Arkansas

I don't think the word "aggressive" means what you think it means. There is nothing aggressive about what he's doing there. He's just sitting there. Passively even.



if you ever do become one, or even visit one, please please don't use nor encourage the use of the word "aggressive"

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I don't think his position is an outlier. Average Cat3/2/1 time trial position. Shoulders aren't even with hips like Zabriskie or anything.

Or that his hunchback is necessarily bad. Looks like an airfoil with an aero helmet on I bet. See: Tony Martin

Most triathletes just don't take position very seriously. Too much whining about comfort and power without trying to get low, powerful, and comfortable.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I, like a previous poster, would be interested in arm pad stack and reach.

Pad stack (including Ceegee pads): 545mm
Pad reach (where elbows would touch): 545mm

Funny how that worked out.

If you could somehow get hold of an X-Lo Aduro, a 51cm P5 would work. You would have to modify the Aduro to make it safe but that is pretty easy.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

X 100000

he rides a saddle designed for rotating pelvis on the nose and does not rotate pelvis. if he did rotate pelvis, he might need a longer reach

should post pad stack/reach numbers if he wants input

It's still a bit too tall/narrow.

Cervelo measures their stack/reach without the cushions and middle of the arm rest cup.

This. The position is very comfortable.

For the other comments about the back shape, I'd be classified under John Cobb's "B" styled back.

Fairly similar to Tom A's position in terms of drop, torso angle, extension angle, except his saddle is pushed further back.

I feel you. I have just gone down from a M to a S on my Shiv - still using a negativ stem and low stack aerobar. This is the absolutely lowest anyone can get a small shiv. I dont get this geometry at all. Of course they dont want mad customers with back pains but why design a bike with low drag as a major point and then not even make it possible to SIT aero on it?? Sure I have short-ish legs but I am in no way strangely built.


I need to tuck my head.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, a Fuji Norcom Straight in size M/L fitted with a reasonable-length stem and some better handlebars would 1) allow you to achieve your desired position, 2) be a significant improvement aerodynamically over your current bike (although maybe not in the same league as, e.g., a P5), and 3) let you avoid the issues you have w/ the P4.

I was thinking about the NS but I wasn't entirely sure about the stem/frame compatibility. Does the NS accept most stems without clearance issues?

About how much slower would you say a NS is to a P5-3, frame only?

I don't know Nick B, but I would like to second his issue. I am a little guy and I ride low up front. I have not been to a wind tunnel, but based on power produced versus speed and some loose Chung style analysis, I have a decently low CdA. I also can not replicate the same position shown below on a super bike.

The below is a picture is P4 with a fixed negative stem on nearly zero stack devox bars. I don't have the bike with me and I haven't measured in a while, but I think the BB to pad Stack and Reach is 485 x 470. Looking at my body, my power vs speed, and my run off the bike, I don't think that there is anything wrong with the position (again it is not wind tunnel approved). What I can say is that while this P4 is a 51, I can't replicate this position on a 48 Felt IA (I think that one gets to the 500 stack range), the 48 P5-6 (maybe if I got rid of the integrated bars, but then what's the point of going with the six and would I be any faster than the P4 anyway), or the Trek SC.

I might be able to make something work with some crazy stem work, but then am I really gaining anything over the P4.

Why would I want a different bike than the P4 you ask: 1 - I would like to be faster if possible, 2 - the rear brake is a bitch to work on, 3 - the rear brake doesn't do a great job of actually braking, 4 - fitting rear wheels has taken way more effort than it should (filing down brake pads) 5 - I would like some of the newer TRI stuff that the bikes have now (like on board storage or bosses on the top tube, etc), 6 - while my Omega front brake is good (when compared to a traditional side pull), I sure like the look of the IA or the P5 where there is nothing but head tube showing up front.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

No, you'd definitely be a bit limited there. But, nothing wrong with the Oval Concepts stem (aside from maybe the price); you'd just have to get a longer one, then run whatever bars you want. Alternatively, the Pro Missile Evo II bar/stem combo is a good option.

As for the Norcom Straight vs. a P5-3, you'd probably be giving up a little bit...but no more than if you went w/ a P4.

Maybe learn to pin a number on better then?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Tucking your head is at the top of the list of things going on with your head?

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

No shit right! Note that there is a different number on my seat post. I did a TRI the day before out of state. I came home and overslept and did a 40k TT the next morning. I was late I barely made the start. This nice lady offered to pin me up "really well and in a great spot." I was like GREAT! just get me to the gate in the next 5 minutes. I did the race and went something like 57:30 on 240 watts and was very happy. I never saw the number until I got the picture, then I was all WTF! That lady screwed me out of some real time!

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

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2014: a little slower 57:52 http://www.lambra.org/...LAMBRA_TT_2014_r.htm

2013: a little faster 57:28: http://www.lambra.org/...LAMBRA_TT_2013_r.htm

2012: first TT ever 59:41 riding a P1 with a wheel cover and a SRAM 80 front (different PM but I think it was still around 240 or so): http://www.lambra.org/...LAMBRA_TT_2012_r.htm


I would love to tell you I did better then 240 on both days, but alas, my FTP has been pretty much stuck there (too much running and too much IM training and not enough Z4+ training). I might have been 239 on one of them and 242 on the other. I can't really remember that fine a detail on it.

ETA: I am James Martin, so you know who you are looking for on the results above.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes