100k people signed up / logged in to view the online coverage. I remember there was was questions on the "cost" and if you had to actually donate to get the link, etc. and then it was "free" after all if you didn't want to donate.

LC triathlon imo still is setup to watch and go do something else and then watch again; and not really "miss" anything. I guess the half distance is a little more exciting because it is only going to be 4ish hours, but I think once you sorta figure out the swim packs, and then where you are by mile 20 on the bike, you can come back to the coverage in an hour and finish the last bit of the bike and then the 75 min run.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I dis get a kick out of the ESPN "coverage" of the event with an article and the 1st picture used is from the 2019 race. I'm always a bit hesitant that all that media coverage = $4.2mi value. Like what does that mean really? Or what do you do with that to move the movement forward.

Does it take using a professional media team like Daytona to make it work? So is it only going to work where courses are within a 3mi radius like ITU / race tracks? Vs a 50mi bike radius of having more media moving parts, etc?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It takes either a professional media team like ESPN or a passionate long-form media team like in the Nordic countries.

People probably forget but ESPN "made" many sports in North America what they are today. They needed to create a market of eyeballs so they took then-niche sports and tremendously upped the production value to draw more eyes. This was good for the sports in question and good for ESPN.

For example, SuperLeague. They know what they are doing and are creating media value out of pretty much nothing IMO. They're passionate and talented.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

So is the only option to create racing in a 3mi radius to cut down on production costs. You broadcast a 50mi bike course and you include a bunch more moving parts than you do if the production company essentially doesn't have to move locations the entire time. So is the only real option for a professional LC marketable sport doing LC triathlons on 3mi courses; IE road course or ovals?

ETA: I think if they used some F1 type of courses, it would lead to decently good television. I think oval racing gets just a little too dull, because there's not any real changes in the action. The leaders are sitting in the same position for 2 hours on the bike; there's no accelerations there's no cornering skills, there's no real change in the dynamics.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

that's not what I'm saying. Other sports do long-form coverage very well. SuperLeague's genius is not the super sprint format it's the high production value and content creation. The format is to attract the athletes and fit in with their seasons and training plans, not to attract the fans IMO.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I both agree and disagree with thsi point. I thought the men's bike at Daytona was super interesting especially early on- you had the front pack changing the lead back and forth and putting in some massive surges to pass a line of cyclists. If the PTO could pair heart rate and power data to show the someone like AB or Ben kanute was doing 500W at a heart rate of 175 or something to pass others, that would be awesome! I also think the coverage of Lionel and Sam coming form the back could've added intrigue to the back half of the bike when it settled down more up front. To Ben's point, the women's bike was a check back an hour later once Paula and Lisa got to the front, though again that could've been better covering Anne Haug and Laura Phillip coming through the pack.

I do think road course would add more variation and potentially better racing, but only if the road course is technical enough to require braking and cornering. Somewhere like Daytona's road course, you can take almost of the corners in the aero bars, so it wouldn't change much. Hypothetically compare that to a Laguna Seca or COTA or Spa which has tight corners and big elevation changes, and you'd see riders having to handle their bikes and really corner. Challenge there would be that the road courses are narrow, so it would be harder to have motorbike coverage without getting in the way or causing a draft.

Side note- it would cost a ton of money and isn't feasible with the motor racing schedule, but can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a similar championship event on the F1 circuit at Monaco around the Monaco GP? Talk about a circuit which would require bike handling and has elevation changes! Swim in the sea, ride and run the F1 track- how cool would that be?!

Your missing why I'm making that point Eric. SL is only SL because they have a billionaire backing their production...let's not kid ourselves. They have no dramas over costs. So talking up SL is probaly the worst dynamic. ESPN though is a much better comparison because of what they did immediately with buying ncaa early tourney games. People don't realize "march madness" wasn't even a thing in the early 80's.

So my point was, if you don't have that billionaire and you have more limited finances, is that how you make it work?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Challenge may have already realized this to an extent, as the course for Miami is not the oval, but rather part of the oval plus some inside roads.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

yes, create the long-form madness, then deliver long-form content with long-form athletes to long-form fans. Comparing ourselves to rock stars and pro athletes is stupid. Lean into the skid, embrace our sport.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

The only reason why I made that note, PTO's own numbers showed a 32min window of viewership. And I can totally see that....the bike leg in that particular venue is setup to be 100% aero and that's it. Sure there may be some jostling but how much passing occurred? So if you add in better courses; you suddenly bring in cornering skills, accelerating skills, etc.

I dont think the Daytona "road course" would provide that. But an actual true F1// type of venue? Abu Dhabi would work, it has hills, has turns, has 180* turns etc. Hell ITU has shown it can be a good venue as it's been there for what 5 years now.

Charlotte motor speedway has a true "road" course that I believe is a 12ish turn course; but no swim venue.


So then you run into the issue, swim venue + track availaibilty.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

That is enough variety imo to atleast setup different dynamics. 3 of those corners will likely result in sitting up and atleast 1 true "cornering" and then accelerating out of the corner, etc. Like I said I dont think it has to be all that much, I think it just needs to break up the rhythm of it not simply being an "ftp test" position.

I don't think the road course at Daytona would provide enough as the corners at that venue aren't technical enough.

(I was there at Daytona '20)


I know this will piss off a lot but like Macca said about the pro dynamics; just make the damn thing DL and be done with it....(yes I know it won't happen).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

When triathlon gets funded by billionaires, we'll see a race in Monaco. LOL.

In another thread I mentioned the Montreal F1 course has been the venue for the Esprit triathlon for 36 years. I'd be very surprised if Challenge hadn't approached them.

That's a great point which I hadn't even thought of- Gilles Villeneuve would be an awesome venue for a pro race! That would be an awesome circuit to race on, you'd really do have to slow down through the tight chicanes. It would be interesting to see if the riders would go for overtakes on the entrances to the corners since you'd have to break aero and get a preferred line to not lose speed for most. Great venue for spectators too, easy to walk around the circuit plus close to a major city. Challenge, make it happen!

My wife and I both watched both the men's and women's race and stayed tuned in for the entire thing and I thought the coverage was fantastic and the races were very fun to watch. I do agree that making it all draft legal would have been more interesting though and I actually remember thinking while watching that it almost would have made it a fairer race because they guys that came out of the water later could have at least tried to form a pack and catch up to the faster swimmers but what instead happened with the draft rule is that guys were kind of stuck where they were out of the water and could not get all the way to the front.

I only laugh at non-draft on a track because it's the venue is sorta designed to be "packs" together. When I was there on the grounds, that was my first thought...it's hilarious they are using a track venue and then having to slot in "non draft" positions. Like riding in a pack on a track is essentially the perfect place for that kind of dynamics....but I know; this is non-draft.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

That circuit hosted the ITU world champs in 1999.

And Montreal (outside Covid times) is an awesome city for tourists.

How about Watkins Glen road course? Hint: Challenge is already looking at WG and if not this year are hoping to add it to the circuit next year.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

I want to see the invoice NASCAR gave to Challenge/PTO. That broadcast cost easily over 500k.


Ben, 89% Household reach doesn't mean much. Any of the main broadcast networks: CBS, NBC, FOX, have an 85-90% household reach since they're free to air.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I noted in another thread talking about track potentials, WG doens't have a swim facility on the property according to google maps. Which isn't that big of a deal, just creates a little logistic issues with broadcasting ease, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I imagine they would do the swim in Seneca Lake which at its closest point is 1.5 miles from the track complex.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Charlotte motor speedway also has an road course but no swim on site and I think due to that location logistics of closing roads wouldn’t make it feasible.

Charlotte’s road course is probaly much better than Miami or Daytona. Daytons’s Road configuration is more or less another smaller loop in the infield behind the pit wall. Atleast miami’s has some technical variation.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If they can actually use the broadcast numbers to create sponsors then I would think it would be justifiable.

I’m a little concern that *only* 100k downloaded the race. Maybe most watched it on their tv package but w cord cutting what it is these days, 100k world wide isn’t a ton of downloads. Eapecially the biggest deepest field ever. But it’s atleast a start and baseline.

I do wonder though just how much covid helped the event whereas in most other normal years it would just likely be no different than another 70.3 event. Like did the fact it could get everyone + the richest purse.

I work at a tri shop.....our sales are through the roof but we aren’t going to venders expecting these same sales numbers every year now. So there has to be some real conversations that talk about what all these numbers “really” mean.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

There's some promising statistics for this as a one off event in there. But I want to know what their baseline was for impressions and viewers and then compare that to the data they presented. I eat this stuff for a living, and I'm like: yeah that's ok, but there's gonna be an Sisyphean effort required to build this into something. Which I'm not sure the Moritz Triathlon Company has that sort of runway.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

That would be awesome. There already is a duathlon at the Glen (Fly-by-night) which is by far the best multi-sport course I've raced.

Swim in Seneca, bike uphill to the course, do multiple 3.33 mile loops with some good elevation and cornering.

Run the track as well with the outer 1/5 reserved for runners and the rest for the bike. The track is plenty wide to have both on it.