I'm old and slow, so my opinion is from someone far below the level of good runners and perhaps should be considered in that context. I switched to Newtons this past fall after almost 40 years of running and racing with gradually more and more cushioned running shoes. I was someone who could never sneak up to pass another runner, since my foot strikes could be heard over long distances. My running stride has become quite smooth and with no pounding at all. Now it's now tap, tap, tap rather than slap, slap, slap. I ran a marathon in January much less time than I have in at least 10 years (although still pretty slow) and, I think, more comfortably than ever. While I can't be sure there won't be long-term effects from less cushioning, it's my sense that my new running style is much better for my body.

Which pair of Newtons do you have, because arguably, they are just as cushioned as any other shoe on the market...

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Nature hasn't designed our foot (and legs) with an +1 inch pad as a sole.

And it would be hilarious to watch the wearer trip over rocks, roots and curbs.

And I can't fathom why anybody does think that shoe-concept has no biomechanical disadvantage.

1/2 an inch may not be that problematic (as also observed with some aboriginal tribes), but even with that there are trade offs.

And no, I never will "run" in Vibrams or similar socks, since Nature hasn't designed the human body to last forever either.

So, what do you suggest? Not running?

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

You're talking about overstriding. That's largely independent of whether you heel strike, mid strike, or fore strike. In fact, for a given foot "landing location", striking on the heel is closer to your center of gravity than striking on the fore or mid foot.

Also, even if you are overstriding, it is only geometrically poor if your muscles are tense and resisting the forward motion of your CG up to the strike point (i.e. "braking"). You could relax your muscles while overstriding and prevent the braking effect. You could even pull your CG forward to the strike point.

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

Thanks. That's an interesting study. But, I wonder about causality. I suspect that the optimally efficient strike (forefoot, midfoot, or heel) depends on the intensity of the run -- walkers heel strike, sprinters forefoot strike. It makes sense that the faster runners in the study would FFS. They FFS because they are running faster, they don't run faster because they FFS...

EDIT: I guess I should read the whole thread before responding. Kudos to Rapp for first bringing up the speed issue.

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

I'm not sure you're reading the results correctly. A bigger percentage of the faster runners had MFS when compared to the whole sample. but still the vast majority of the faster runners had RFS (62%).

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The Triathlon Squad

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Yah, thanks. I skimmed it and misread MFS as FFS in this: " The percentage of RFS increases with the decreasing of the running speed; conversely, the percentage of MFS increases as the running speed increases."

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

You can't skim an abstract!!!

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The Triathlon Squad

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You're correct and I was wrong. I still incorrectly associate heel striking with overstriding...especially after too much wine at dinner. :-)

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-Andrew Saar
It is better to do the right thing and be paid poorly,
than to do the wrong thing and be rewarded richly.

Yah. I'm guilty. That's what I get for trying to ST at work... ;)

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

Run in moderately cushioned neutral shoes without a ramp.
If you have to run on hard surfaces rotate your shoes often.

Run on soft surfaces as often and much as possible.

Leave them discussing abstract science, stick with the simple principles and run smart ;-)

Clearly, you can.

Now, with that being said, I think that we're now nit-picking over what is "proper" when really, there is a range of acceptable strides that all retain similar identifying characteristics...and where in that range you fall is determinative of footwear.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I'd improve the above, slightly, by rephrasing: "Almost everyone becomes a MFS when he/she increases pace past some threshold."

To which I'd add, "If that speed or that technique is NOT sustainable, then that individual is poorly (or at least non-optimally) trained to race that event."

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Mark V. McDonnell
TriExpert Coaching
coach@triexpert.com

Lets talk rear foot strike. I am finding two different kinds. One where you plop you lazy ass down on your heel ala fat dudes and run by feel in high tech shoe runners or something else I have noticed that is hard for me to explain. I have been learning to not just stick my foot out there and hope every thing is a ok but instead I start my propulsion before my foot hits. I pull back before my foot hits the ground so that, I ca not prove this, I am striking the ground at a shallower angle and putting more force into forward motion. Dig? Probably not. Any way If your heel is coming at a shallow angle and not just being slammed into the ground for support it feels like less impact.

Wow that sucked.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Tibbs... JFR.

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The Triathlon Squad

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They may not equate, but it's the rare athlete who can set down his/her foot directly below the knee (and CoM) while maintaining dorsiflexion. So as a practical matter, they go hand in hand, in my experience.

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Mark V. McDonnell
TriExpert Coaching
coach@triexpert.com

lol

x2

Huh? Insults in English.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Form is velocity dependent. That said, easier runs still are in a training plan. Thus a shoe like this can fit into "the rotation" for the easy efforts. But like hell you'll be doing fast stuff in it. For that, get the spikes/flats.

...not to mention working on improving the elasticity of the foot and calf.

*boing boing boing*

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Just farking run.

"Form is velocity dependent."

when you consider the important elements of technique that attend, variously, both swimming and running, what among those technical elements at slower speeds (both in swimming and running) become unimportant, and are now not worth paying attention to?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am and what I am noticing is the "just run" stuff is bullshit.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

How much are you running?

I am between 20 to 40 minutes 6 days a week with some walking thrown in during the run and a lot of walking during the day. I still can't buy the idea of running any old way. I am doing a lot of work on my form and the more work I do the less pain I have and the faster I go. The whole idea of running forum seems to be more religion then thought. Everyone is saying "just run" and a lot of people are getting hurt. I don't understand why there can't be a correct way to run.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.