Re: Computrainer going under? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:14

Post #76 of 149 (3350 views)

h2ofun wrote:

exxxviii wrote:

SBRcoffee wrote:

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service.

Technology and the market pivoted; CT did not. It is just like the story of Blockbuster video refusing to enter the digital or kiosk space for fear it would cannibalize their brick-and-mortar business. DCR summarized the pivot pretty well-- the slow death began 5 or 6 years ago with Kickr & TrainerRoad. CT failed to engage in the open trainer & software space (they would have had to have abandoned their SW and opened the trainer to standard wireless interfaces), and the product line died as a result.

It was not because people in the company were not trying to get the owners to make changes!!!!!! I have talked to many over the years and they knew what needed to happened, but could never get the support.

I still think someone will buy up CT...

I very rarely agree with h2ofun about trainer, but I will agree on these two fronts:

A) It's not about the lower level employees. Time and time again they expressed frustrations to me about the owners not wanting to move forward.

B) I think someone will buy up CT (there's already a line from what I see), but that's only if Chuck lets them. Right now, they aren't answering calls/e-mails from interested buyers. So...yeah.

-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Re: Computrainer going under? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:16

Post #77 of 149 (3346 views)

h2ofun wrote:

I still think someone will buy up CT. There still is really no better hw on the market. And even though I do not think one needs the wireless hassles, having a platform that can give you both options would be smart.

With respect, the market has spoken. Its not the best. Its dead.

Re: Computrainer going under? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:19

Post #78 of 149 (3337 views)

h2ofun wrote:

exxxviii wrote:

SBRcoffee wrote:

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service.

Technology and the market pivoted; CT did not. It is just like the story of Blockbuster video refusing to enter the digital or kiosk space for fear it would cannibalize their brick-and-mortar business. DCR summarized the pivot pretty well-- the slow death began 5 or 6 years ago with Kickr & TrainerRoad. CT failed to engage in the open trainer & software space (they would have had to have abandoned their SW and opened the trainer to standard wireless interfaces), and the product line died as a result.

It was not because people in the company were not trying to get the owners to make changes!!!!!! I have talked to many over the years and they knew what needed to happened, but could never get the support.

I still think someone will buy up CT. There still is really no better hw on the market. And even though I do not think one needs the wireless hassles, having a platform
that can give you both options would be smart.

Racermate definitely has some good people there. It is unfortunate that the companycould not adapt to today and also provide a competitive price point.

I agree that CT is a very sold piece of hardware. I owned one for several years. Maybe they are still the most durable (that will take time to determine), and I can't argue if that is a portion of "best". Nevertheless, I have now used the Tacx Neo for over a year, I can say that is does everything as well as the CT, and can do certain things that the CT cannot do. Maybe those are features that you are not interested in, but I have to say that it is better that the CT (but both still really good!)

As far as the Velotron being the best available; that comes down to where you draw the line between trainer and lab ergometer. Velotron is really a low end electronically braked lab ergometer. It can't really match the lineup from Lode. Probably doesn't compete with the SRM ergometer either. Again, a fine piece or hardware, but certainly not he best.

Re: Computrainer going under? [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:23

Post #79 of 149 (3333 views)

Ray, interesting question not yet answered. What will happen with ErgVideo, will they open there software for PerfPro or other platforms?

Re: Computrainer going under? [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:26

Post #80 of 149 (3329 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

For me, if I'm doing a workout at 5:30am fresh out of bed, I just need to show up and pedal. I need something that just works. No diagnosing wireless connections, unplugging the trainer and then plugging it back in, restarting your computer, etc. There's plenty of bullshit to deal with in the course of a normal day. There's no reason you should have to deal with it on your stationary trainer.

Spot on! in the garage we have both a new Computrainer and a KK Road Machine along with Trainer Road and a dedicated desktop PC. Guess which one see all of the use, the KK and Trainer Road. I would rather go to the trouble of taking the wife's bike off the KK to put mine on then bother with all of the set up etc on the Computrainer, not to mention it crashes the computer half the time trying to get it set up.

Anyone want to buy a Computrainer, less then 100 miles on it.

Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Re: Computrainer going under? [Mike Plumb] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:29

Post #81 of 149 (3327 views)

Hello Mike Plumb and All,

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ases-production.html

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Re: Computrainer going under? [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 9:44

Post #82 of 149 (3296 views)

dcrainmaker wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

exxxviii wrote:

SBRcoffee wrote:

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service.

Technology and the market pivoted; CT did not. It is just like the story of Blockbuster video refusing to enter the digital or kiosk space for fear it would cannibalize their brick-and-mortar business. DCR summarized the pivot pretty well-- the slow death began 5 or 6 years ago with Kickr & TrainerRoad. CT failed to engage in the open trainer & software space (they would have had to have abandoned their SW and opened the trainer to standard wireless interfaces), and the product line died as a result.

It was not because people in the company were not trying to get the owners to make changes!!!!!! I have talked to many over the years and they knew what needed to happened, but could never get the support.

I still think someone will buy up CT...

I very rarely agree with h2ofun about trainer, but I will agree on these two fronts:

A) It's not about the lower level employees. Time and time again they expressed frustrations to me about the owners not wanting to move forward.

B) I think someone will buy up CT (there's already a line from what I see), but that's only if Chuck lets them. Right now, they aren't answering calls/e-mails from interested buyers. So...yeah.

:)

I could never understand why RM would not allow, for both the CT and VT, the API's to be released, and supported, but RM, so third party SW could go nuts on the
best hardware our there. Even though the CT stuff have been reversed engineered, from what I could see, RM never got over being upset and did not fully support
the third party apps that do run on the CT.

I thought RM had the Wireless stuff done for the HW. I wonder if RM decided to not let it be released at the end of last year.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Last edited by: h2ofun: Mar 2, 17 4:15

Re: Computrainer going under? [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:15

Post #83 of 149 (3258 views)

Quote:

B) I think someone will buy up CT (there's already a line from what I see), but that's only if Chuck lets them. Right now, they aren't answering calls/e-mails from interested buyers. So...yeah.

Hmmm, so many possibilities for why this might be happening that have nothing to do with the business itself and which the owner might want to avoid seeing the light of day.

Re: Computrainer going under? [Mike Plumb] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:17

Post #84 of 149 (3250 views)

Mike Plumb wrote:

GreenPlease wrote:

For me, if I'm doing a workout at 5:30am fresh out of bed, I just need to show up and pedal. I need something that just works. No diagnosing wireless connections, unplugging the trainer and then plugging it back in, restarting your computer, etc. There's plenty of bullshit to deal with in the course of a normal day. There's no reason you should have to deal with it on your stationary trainer.

Spot on! in the garage we have both a new Computrainer and a KK Road Machine along with Trainer Road and a dedicated desktop PC. Guess which one see all of the use, the KK and Trainer Road. I would rather go to the trouble of taking the wife's bike off the KK to put mine on then bother with all of the set up etc on the Computrainer, not to mention it crashes the computer half the time trying to get it set up.

Anyone want to buy a Computrainer, less then 100 miles on it.

Odd.

All I every read on the Zwift groups is people having trouble with their trainers.

My Computrainer is rock solid. Wake the computer, fire up trainer road and/or zwift and go. Never have a problem. I usually am waiting on netflix to finish buffering by the time I'm ready to ride.

Re: Computrainer going under? [pvl000] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:22

Post #85 of 149 (3239 views)

X2. We have 5 CTs set up in the basement studio, and it takes about 3 minutes for all 5 riders to change out bikes, calibrate (initial) and get ready to ride. All our wires are under the carpet, and we've not had a failure, hang up, or issue in 3 years.

9X CompuTrainer Owner

Re: Computrainer going under? [Livio Livius] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:36

Post #86 of 149 (3217 views)

Livio Livius wrote:

Ray, interesting question not yet answered. What will happen with ErgVideo, will they open there software for PerfPro or other platforms?

They work with the Kickr and Neo now.

Re: Computrainer going under? [J_R] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:43

Post #87 of 149 (3203 views)

J_R wrote:

Livio Livius wrote:

Ray, interesting question not yet answered. What will happen with ErgVideo, will they open there software for PerfPro or other platforms?

They work with the Kickr and Neo now.

$9.99 per month and u can ride multiple courses, race if u feel like it, and running it on any computer... Zwift >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ErgVideos

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Re: Computrainer going under? [J_R] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:44

Post #88 of 149 (3200 views)

I know but in a very complicated way as it was tailormade for CT. Nice thing would be if the video's would run in/with for example PerfPro or Trainerroad.

Re: Computrainer going under? [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:46

Post #89 of 149 (3197 views)

SBRcoffee wrote:

tttiltheend wrote:

... All in all, a pretty sad story, and that's being kind.

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service. Its not like they suddenly stole a bunch of money from people.
For those who have them, they will likely still outlast many of the new erg trainers on the market.

I don't think it's harsh at all. No, they didn't steal from anyone, except themselves. Their story is a masterpiece of stupidity. It should be a HBS project. They allowed their dominant place in the market to be completely eclipsed by upstarts that they had the power to crush. No matter how much they milked out of the company by keeping R&D costs low, it has to pale in comparison to the potential sales they could have had as indoor training has exploded in recent years. Per DC rainmaker, the kickr came about after wahoo took an idea for a controller to Racermate and Racermate said no.

I'll just keep using my CT until it breaks and no parts are available. Could be years from now.

Re: Computrainer going under? [OldnFat] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:50

Post #90 of 149 (3190 views)

OldnFat wrote:

SBRcoffee wrote:

tttiltheend wrote:

... All in all, a pretty sad story, and that's being kind.

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service. Its not like they suddenly stole a bunch of money from people.
For those who have them, they will likely still outlast many of the new erg trainers on the market.

I don't think it's harsh at all. No, they didn't steal from anyone, except themselves. Their story is a masterpiece of stupidity. It should be a HBS project. They allowed their dominant place in the market to be completely eclipsed by upstarts that they had the power to crush. No matter how much they milked out of the company by keeping R&D costs low, it has to pale in comparison to the potential sales they could have had as indoor training has exploded in recent years. Per DC rainmaker, the kickr came about after wahoo took an idea for a controller to Racermate and Racermate said no.

I'll just keep using my CT until it breaks and no parts are available. Could be years from now.

Pretty much the same that is happening to SRM...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Re: Computrainer going under? [Livio Livius] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 10:53

Post #91 of 149 (3183 views)

Livio Livius wrote:

Ray, interesting question not yet answered. What will happen with ErgVideo, will they open there software for PerfPro or other platforms?

ErgVideo has already been moving on. They support Kickrs now and I think anything with Ant+ F-EC

Re: Computrainer going under? [Mike Plumb] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 11:11

Post #92 of 149 (3156 views)

Mike Plumb wrote:

GreenPlease wrote:

For me, if I'm doing a workout at 5:30am fresh out of bed, I just need to show up and pedal. I need something that just works. No diagnosing wireless connections, unplugging the trainer and then plugging it back in, restarting your computer, etc. There's plenty of bullshit to deal with in the course of a normal day. There's no reason you should have to deal with it on your stationary trainer.

Spot on! in the garage we have both a new Computrainer and a KK Road Machine along with Trainer Road and a dedicated desktop PC. Guess which one see all of the use, the KK and Trainer Road. I would rather go to the trouble of taking the wife's bike off the KK to put mine on then bother with all of the set up etc on the Computrainer, not to mention it crashes the computer half the time trying to get it set up.

Anyone want to buy a Computrainer, less then 100 miles on it.

Wow, never had those issues. Do you have computer issues?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Computrainer going under? [OldnFat] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 11:13

Post #93 of 149 (3151 views)

OldnFat wrote:

It should be a HBS project. .

I agree. How many other example are there of a business that effectively invents a new market segment only to find they go out of business at a time when business is absolutely booming? Just this week I heard on the ZwiftCast an interview with the owner of Tacx and he explained how the Neo was their highest selling trainer by volume. The idea that their top end smart trainer outsells every other model is mind blowing to me. Yes, in this environment where the market is ready and willing to buy smart trainers the company that invented it can't stay in business.

Re: Computrainer going under? [dgran] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 12:05

Post #94 of 149 (3083 views)

dgran wrote:

How many other example are there of a business that effectively invents a new market segment only to find they go out of business at a time when business is absolutely booming?

Here are a few recent examples...
Yahoo
Visicalc & Lotus 1-2-3
Sony Betamax, Minidisk, etc. (Sony has a crapton of first-mover failures)
Palm Pilot
Compaq PJB-100
Friendster

Re: Computrainer going under? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 12:32

Post #95 of 149 (3048 views)

It's improper to gloat over the demise of a company who made a great product that I enjoyed plenty in its time.

It's not improper for me to gloat at all of the luddites on these boards who have spent the last 5 years denouncing the competition and evangelizing their positions against all evidence to to the contrary. Fortunately for my sanity I realized the futility of continuing to argue this topic a few years ago and simply sat back to let history take its course.

Anyone who wishes is free to happily ride their CTs until the end of time. Shockingly, it's possible to like what you like without requiring everyone else on the internet to agree with you in order to validate your decisions.

Re: Computrainer going under? [tgarson] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 12:43

Post #96 of 149 (3024 views)

tgarson wrote:

It's improper to gloat over the demise of a company who made a great product that I enjoyed plenty in its time.

It's not improper for me to gloat at all of the luddites on these boards who have spent the last 5 years denouncing the competition and evangelizing their positions against all evidence to to the contrary. Fortunately for my sanity I realized the futility of continuing to argue this topic a few years ago and simply sat back to let history take its course.

Anyone who wishes is free to happily ride their CTs until the end of time. Shockingly, it's possible to like what you like without requiring everyone else on the internet to agree with you in order to validate your decisions.

Totally agree

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Computrainer going under? [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 13:10

Post #97 of 149 (2997 views)

dcrainmaker wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

exxxviii wrote:

SBRcoffee wrote:

Kind of harsh.
They were pretty much the only power based trainers for years, and they worked near perfect with little maintenance and excellent customer service.

Technology and the market pivoted; CT did not. It is just like the story of Blockbuster video refusing to enter the digital or kiosk space for fear it would cannibalize their brick-and-mortar business. DCR summarized the pivot pretty well-- the slow death began 5 or 6 years ago with Kickr & TrainerRoad. CT failed to engage in the open trainer & software space (they would have had to have abandoned their SW and opened the trainer to standard wireless interfaces), and the product line died as a result.

It was not because people in the company were not trying to get the owners to make changes!!!!!! I have talked to many over the years and they knew what needed to happened, but could never get the support.

I still think someone will buy up CT...

I very rarely agree with h2ofun about trainer, but I will agree on these two fronts:

A) It's not about the lower level employees. Time and time again they expressed frustrations to me about the owners not wanting to move forward.

B) I think someone will buy up CT (there's already a line from what I see), but that's only if Chuck lets them. Right now, they aren't answering calls/e-mails from interested buyers. So...yeah.

I don't get it, but it sounds like they are going out of biz, but the owners will not sell off the IP and assets? This makes no sense? I was half toying with the idea myself, but I think someone like Wahoo would be in a much better position given that they are in the biz and developed the supply chain and channels to market and I have none of that.

Re: Computrainer going under? [OldnFat] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 13:24

Post #98 of 149 (2970 views)

OldnFat wrote:

I don't think it's harsh at all. No, they didn't steal from anyone, except themselves. Their story is a masterpiece of stupidity. It should be a HBS project. They allowed their dominant place in the market to be completely eclipsed by upstarts that they had the power to crush. No matter how much they milked out of the company by keeping R&D costs low, it has to pale in comparison to the potential sales they could have had as indoor training has exploded in recent years. Per DC rainmaker, the kickr came about after wahoo took an idea for a controller to Racermate and Racermate said no.

I'll just keep using my CT until it breaks and no parts are available. Could be years from now.

FWIW there's quite the little battle in the comments on DCR's site going on between Richard Wharton & Roger Moore about the demise of CT. Don't personally know the backstory but makes for interesting reading.

Re: Computrainer going under? [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 13:30

Post #99 of 149 (2958 views)

tttiltheend wrote:

OldnFat wrote:

I don't think it's harsh at all. No, they didn't steal from anyone, except themselves. Their story is a masterpiece of stupidity. It should be a HBS project. They allowed their dominant place in the market to be completely eclipsed by upstarts that they had the power to crush. No matter how much they milked out of the company by keeping R&D costs low, it has to pale in comparison to the potential sales they could have had as indoor training has exploded in recent years. Per DC rainmaker, the kickr came about after wahoo took an idea for a controller to Racermate and Racermate said no.

I'll just keep using my CT until it breaks and no parts are available. Could be years from now.

FWIW there's quite the little battle in the comments on DCR's site going on between Richard Wharton & Roger Moore about the demise of CT. Don't personally know the backstory but makes for interesting reading.

Yeah, Wharton really takes their decisions personally. If they could draw Coggan into the argument it would really be entertaining.

Re: Computrainer going under? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 17 13:31

Post #100 of 149 (2957 views)

(Picking you to respond to, merely because I know you're most interested in this tidbit)

I have received confirmation that Velotron will continue to be produced. The sum total of that detail is in the sentence to the left.

-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

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