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Comfort and climbing; help me spend money!
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I want a bike that gives me greater comfort and climbs well. What do I get?

By comfort, I mean lower back comfort. Climbing well - well, that basically means stiff and light. My current position is this: I have a steel-frame "everyday" bike. I've had a lot of use of out this, and basically there's nothing wrong with it. It's pretty quick in a straight line, but it's quite heavy, and I've noticed more recently that I get a lot of "a$$-kicking" coming up through the frame. And lately that's been showing up as lower back discomfort post riding: a feeling of compression of the verbetrae around the lower lumbar/saecrum (although this could be symptomatic of old age: who knows?). As well as training, I use this bike for commuting (approx 30 mins e/way, through traffic - lots of slowing and speeding up) on badly potted roads.

I also have a Rocketwing, which is sooooo comfortable it's unreal. But it's all tricked up into a tt/tri position, so not suitable for everyday riding in traffic. It's also geared at 53/42 at the front, so it is (or I am?) disadvantaged even more when the road turns very hilly.

I have a third bike which I keep away from home in an area which is properly hilly. It's a Giant OCR Composite 2: full carbon, and I love it. Comfort is up there with the Softie. And it climbs really nicely. But I'm sceptical that's it's got the same straight line speed on the flat that the other two have.

So, I'm thinking of buying a new frame/fork, stripping the steel frame and putting the components from that bike on the new frame fork. This bike has to (a) provide comfort - ie no a$$ kicking; (b) be durable - ie cope with a daily commute of stop/start riding and chasing down other riders; (c) cope with training rides at the weekend; (d) climb well.

So far I've id'd the following:

1. A scnadium bike with a carbon back end, plus a carbon fork & carbon seat post. I have one in mind made by a local manufacturer which fits this bill.

2. A Cervelo Soloist. Not sure why I think this is a good idea, but I do.

3. A Giant TCR composite frame & fork. All carbon, and surprisingly affordable. Giant's carbon frame have a lifetime warranty, but I don't know enough about their longevity to know if everyday use & training is going to make this bike suffer.

4. A titanium frame, maybe with carbon rear end, seatpost & fork. A friend who bikes a lot recommended this set up for my specific gripe.

Who's got any ideas?
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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TitanFlex. Put a stiff a boom on it or a not-so-stiff one, or even a relatively flexible one on it to match your weight/riding style. This is a VERY stiff frame from handlebar through the BB to the rear. But, man, is it comfortable on the rough road! I wish I had one in road configuration, but, I just make do with my TT version. Only rarely do I ride my Talon.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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how about spending your money on getting a good coach? there are virtually no bikes that don't climb...just people who don't.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
how about spending your money on getting a good coach? there are virtually no bikes that don't climb...just people who don't.


I'm well aware that all bikes climb. But some bikes make the process feel a lot easier than others.

As for a coach, I'm quite capable of buying myself a training book and work out a training regime by myself. It may not be as good as a *good* coach, but I'll live with the difference.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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The big question is, will a good coach make climbing easier than a good bike? The margin of a good coach over your books is definitely greater than the margin of a 13 lb. bike over a 20lb. bike...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I understand the value of a coach, and a training regime. I don't expect either of those to address lower back pain which I get with one bike but not with two other bikes.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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If you live near San Marcos, go with option A, but forget the Carbon seat post and get a Thomson Masterpiece - it will be lighter and stronger. Also, no real comfort benefit from the carbon rear end, but it may make it stiffer. I have an alu rear on my road bike that was hand made in San Marcos, it is very stiff, very comfortable and crazy light. I have the carbon rear on my tri bike (mde by the same guy) where I am not as concerned with weight, but wanted more stiffness.

An alternative geometry would be the "DL" - slightly steeper seat tube, designed to handle the weight of aero bars over the front. This is the geometry that I have on my roadie though I don't ride with aero bars on it.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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if you can be your own coach you should be able to figure out that getting a new bike will not do much for your climbing compared to designing a good training program or improving your body composition...
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Steel is one of the best, if not the best, materials for "comfort." You should be more comfortable on a steel bike than on any other bike, assuming it fits you right.

If you log a lot of miles on it, check the saddle (maybe time for a new one if the padding is worn). Check your wheels - maybe out of true, spoke tension way off, etc. All things that can contribute to "buzz."

And of course, check your position. Payment for a fit session is always cheaper than a new frame. And if you can ride without pain on your other bikes, it suggests that it is not chronic pain (like arthritis) and that you should be able to fix it.

And, core strengthening work, if you are not already doing a fair bit, is one of the best ways to alleviate this kind of pain.

No material will ever match up to a proper fit, proper conditioning, and well-tuned equipment. Just trying to save you from buying a new frame that may not be needed. If you are looking for an excuse to buy a new frame, as I think we all are :), then buy away...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Get a Rocket TT7

Or, try some softer tires that can be inflated to lower pressures, Does an Arrione's longer rails help with this? I don't know.

My buddy has a Madone. He swears it is really comfortable on the bumpy roads up in the Angeles Crest.

A nice, lightweight, steel frame would likely solved a lot of your problems.

You realize that these suggestions are worth what you paid for it--ZERO.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Buy any bike that fits you well geometrically, and put on your favourite saddle, 25mm tires, and double bar tape.

Frame material is one of the most insignificant factors to comfort, and yet there's always pages of zen like testimonials to the comfort of whatever particular material costs the most at the time of print or post.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Gregg, as Rappstar mentioned, make sure you get on a good core strengthening program to address your lower back pain. I used to be able to eliminate my lower back pain by doing straight-legged dead-lifts with light weights (several sets of 20 reps without straining). After 15-20 years, though, this stopped working. Then, I went to a suspension bike and I have had ZERO lower back pain since that change...that's why I suggested a TitanFlex. However, Rappstar is correct: address possible musculo-skeletal issues first. Without doing so, you may not find relief no matter what setup you pick. Good luck!


Oh, one more thing. Back in the mid-'80's, I had two bikes. A rock-stiff Aluminum Cannondale and a limp-noodle, but very comfortable SLX steel Razesa. Same road positioning on both bikes. I would think the Cannondale would climb much better because of it's stiffness. But, proven over and over to me on timed courses, I climbed better on the noodle. I actually won a mountain TT on the Razesa, and I weighed about 185 then (just like now). But, I was much stronger then, just a few years out from playing football and bench pressing 355 lbs. So, I don't think that a comfortable frame is neccessarily less of a climber than a stiff one. Still, a suspension bike can't be beat as far as comfort.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
Last edited by: Titan: Sep 4, 05 5:00
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Three things if you do not have any flexibility issues which will require a strength and stretch regimen:

-Fit

-Wheelset

-Tires and pressure

Frame material will be distant 4th.

--------------------------------------------------------
I see obsessed people.
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
on badly potted roads. Gregg66, I changed from 23c to 28c tires and it as made a big difference on my commute.

Jay
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Recommendations:

Kestrel Talon with Carbon Aero seatpost
Kestrel EMS bar
Cinelli gel bar tape
10 spd Dura Ace 27-12 x 53-39 gearing
25mm Continental Grand Prix 3000 clinchers @ 115 psi

This setup is smooth, light and will climb well with those gears.

FWIW IMHO
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Re: Comfort and climbing; help me spend money! [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
how about spending your money on getting a good coach? there are virtually no bikes that don't climb...just people who don't.


Every bike can climb and every person can climb, it's just that some bikes make climbing difficult and some people have difficulty climbing.

In that regard, I don't see why your Giant can't be your "climbing bike". And you don't need a coach (anyone can be a "coach"). Research climbing technique and positioning and just go out and do it.
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