Sydney

Bump for the day crowd

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http://trainingoferic.blogspot.com/

AJ

Not Cleveland!!! Damb you.

In all truth - Cleve does not measure up to some of the meccas, but it is shockingly quite good.

1. Weather - sucks for 45% or the year but the other 55% is great.

2. Not a ton of tri specific shops, but actually a few.

3. Clean fresh water lake to swim in.

4. Decent parks system.

5. Tons of races within 2 1/2 hr. drive - all produced quite well.

6. Great tri club in Cleveland Triathlon Club.

If we could just fix the weather issue - I might actually stay here long term.

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

The metro Phoenix area has to be one of the best multisport cities in the US. In the metro area alone (i.e. I can sleep in my bed and do the race and rarely have to drive more than 45 minutes) we have an IM (at least this year), half ironman, a variety of OD races, a 3/4 OD race, several pool-based sprint series, an offroad tri series, an Xterra race, about 15 splash and dash races, and a variety of on road and off road dus. We also have mountain races 2 hours north, Tucson races two hours south and several races in Mexico (ocean) 3.5 hours from Phx. The season run almost 12 months. Plus, races are reasonably priced and do not sell out months in advance (I have never had a problem with a soldout race). There are 3 or 4 different tri clubs and various lakes for open water swimming. The competition between race organizations is intense and has driven at least one company out of town (3disciplines).

Road biking is quite good because the roads are clean, wide, and visibility is high. In the north of the metro area there is good access to some hilly rides. Mountain biking is excellent. We have 7 or 8 montain parks in and around the metro area, all with great trials. We also have offroad access in many other locations for trail running and mountain biking.

Toronto?

Shares many of the same qualities of Cleveland with unfortunately even worse winter weather!

1. There are a huge number of very high quality races within a 2 hour drive of Toronto from May to September. We really are spoiled here. These are some of the best run races in the world!

2. There is a high concentration of very good coaches with world-class credentials

3. There is also a high concentration of very good road and triathlon bike shops

4. Cycling in the city sucks, but there is a great selection of pools and Toronto has some of the best inner city running options of any large city in North America

5. Cycling outside the city beyond the suburbs, is remarkably good with almost endless, quiet country roads to ride on. No mountains, but some nasty rollers through the Oak Ridges area and over to Hockley valley.

6. Within, 2 hours you can reach the real training nirvanas of Muskoka, The Haliburton and Kawartha areas Even quieter country roads. Endless open water swimming options and outstanding trail running.

Just be prepared for a long winter. It's mid March and we still have quite a bit of snow on the ground and it's -5C today!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Denver/Boulder has to be up there. With all of the pros in Boulder and the many places to swim bike and run in Denver it's a pretty decent scene. Plus there is a race within an hours drive just about every weekend.

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"One thing I have found there are just two ways to go
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow"- Robert Earlk Keen Jr.

[reply]Toronto?
Just be prepared for a long winter. It's mid March and we still have quite a bit of snow on the ground and it's -5C today! [/reply]

It's 50F here in Austin today and I am complaining about that. I love the heat.

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http://trainingoferic.blogspot.com/

hey eric, is there a 50m pool and/or a good masters swim group in austin? thinking on moving back but still haven't ruled out boulder or madison...

...sorry Fleck, but Ottawa beats Toronto for the following reasons:

You CAN actually ride in the city and Gatineau Park is 8K from downtown Ottawa.

A multisport race in town every weekend from May till end of Sep, including an Ironman and half Ironman

Over 80 Ironman finishers per year, typically >50 at Ironman Lake Placid alone !

A few world class athletes (ie Dave Harju etc)

Top Age groupers

Over 1000 multisport atheletes

Great facilities

XC skiing for the 4 months per year, right in the city, while the rest of North America barring a few guys down south are stuck doing trainer rides :-).

Relatively minimal traffic for a city with 1 million people with good (relatively speaking) job prospects and excellent cost of living.

You Toronto guys just don't know what you are missing :-).



Having been to Vancouver, Raleigh, San Fracisco, San Jose, Chicago, New York, and Calgary, I would have to say Ottawa beats all these places big time for triathlon/endurance sport/active lifestyle. Probably, the biggest deal is our overall lack of gridlock and access to fairly pristine pockets of nature with a 10 min ride or drive from any part of the city.

Dev - agreed. Ottawa is pretty darn good. I'm a bit bias because, I was born and raised for the most part in Toronto. For what it's worth, I would choose to live in Ottawa if not for other circumstances that keep me in the TO area.

I don't know why I am tooting Toronto's horn. I live 30 minutes north of the city in Aurora - but no one would know where the heck Aurora is!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Fleck, I hear you. Where you are located in Aurora, it is pretty darn good too :-)

Wait till the Vancouverites jump in on this. Having lived there Vancouver is a very compelling place to live. I lived there quite happily for 10 years. However, it says something to me when almost every person that I know who migrated out to Vancouver in the early 90's is now back in Southern, Ontario.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Ottawa is a great place but is also, I believe, the coldest capital city in the world (maybe Ulan Batur is colder). Also, having lived in Ontario, I know that there is high quality racing. But, a city with a 4 month season cannot be called a great tri city (unless there is a qualifier that says the best short season tri city) :-) Here in Phoenix we have a 12 month tri scene (but I make sure I am in Canada for a few of those months).

Fleck, I can imagine what the Vancouverites will say themselves (once they get up, over there on PST). I lived there years ago. The gridlock and cost of living position it relatively poorly. That being said, if you can't deal with the cold, it is a pretty darn good place (in Canada). I guess Victoria would take it, but what do you do for work out there (aside from being retired) :-).

Yes, many of my friends who moved out there have come back, but it seems mainly to be closer to family/aging parents. Those from out there, typically stay out there (myself excluded) :-)

Don't listen to Dev. Ottawa sucks. Really. Car free riding in Gateneau Park is awful. Riding on the flat, light-traffic roads south of the City sucks as well. All the local events are poorly organized and way, way over priced.

I deeply regret moving here from Toronto four years ago. Really.

The quibble I would have about Ottawa is the lack of a good Tri shop. There are lots of bike stores (maybe too many), very few seem interested in tri, let alone actually focusing on it in a meaningful way (I recall calling our local Cervelo dealer two years ago to see if they had any Solist 105's in stock at the end of the season...and was told that yes, they had lots of bikes with 105).

Fair enough, we likely lose to Pheonix, but beat most Cdn cities. Its not a four month tri season. Its more like a 4 month tri racing season, plus a 10 month running race season, plus a 4-5 month XC ski race season, plus a 3 month speedskating season...you get the picture :-).

I'd suspect for some of those 12 months (like 5), training outdoors in Pheonix is more of a 5 am till 9 am or 7 pm to 9 pm thing to avoid the 110 degree mid day heat ?

I lived in Aurora and yes it's great for biking and running.

But I also worked in Ottawa for a year and fell in love with Gatineau Park. Really reminded me of cycling in Europe. Twisty roads either up or down, was just great.

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Wilfried Heinle

Artificial Intelligence can never beat natural stupidity.

Agreed - Ottawa is a great place for trisports and wintersports. I used to cross country ski in Canada and loved it. I have not done it for over 20 years. I used to skate on frozen lakes in the winter. I have not done it for 20 years. If only the winter was a tiny bit shorter (say 2 months!), I would go north (and lower taxes would also help).

Phoenix wouldn't be quite that bad. October through April are excellent typically, July and August are the brutal "get it done by 9am or forget it" months, although you can bike a short ride any time of day if you are willing to carry enough water and tough it out. The 7pm to 9pm slot doesn't cool off that much unfortunately. We have plenty of good races springing up here lately, but the "scene" is better in southern california and the weather typically better. I think it's pretty hard to beat Orange and San Diego counties, at least until you factor in the cost of moving there, etc. They wouldn't be my choice as a pro-training location though, too much density, to few really good routes, you would get tired of riding them every day. Christchurch looks pretty good from that perspective, or stateside somewhere in the midwest (Madison) for the summer and Tucson for the winter.

There are several pretty good master's groups in Austin. Longhorn aquatics has one of the best ones.

50m pools. You'd think so, but there are only a few that I know of. Longhorn uses the UT pool, but it's generally short course only for Master's. Longhorn also uses the Circle C pool, but it is generally shortcourse for Master's as well, but is long course more than UT.

There is a city pool that is 50m, but only in the morning and they put the lanes short course in the evening since the lap crowd is bigger. AND it's only open from either late April or early May through Mid September or early October.

The short answer to your question is that there are several pretty good master's groups. 50m pool time/space is limited.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

OK, if we are going outside North America, my vote would be just west of Cannes France on the Cote D'Azur. Ironguide will likely second this choice. You really can't beat that location.

Yup, the Cote sure is a nice place. But Cannes wouldn't be my first choice. Too big and too busy. My parents have some friends whow retired in a little place called "Eze sur mer" about half way between Nice and Monaco. Their villa is nested into the Alpes maritime with a view on the Mediterrean.

I stayed there both times I did the Nice tri.

That would be my spot ;)

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Wilfried Heinle

Artificial Intelligence can never beat natural stupidity.

I was thinking outside Cannes, just west along the coast. Is "Eze sur Mer" near the famous Col d'Eze where Sean Kelley would always wrap up his Paris Nice wins ?

South of France would be very good. For a fun expat tri scene, Singapore is great. There is tight knit group of triathletes that do training weekends in Sri Lanka, Indoneasia, Phuket, and Malaysia. For an expat triathlete looking at instantly fitting into a local scene, Singapore is great. Obviously, it is year round (humidity takes a lot of getting used to for running). Racing is quite good also, although most of the the races are not quite to the organizational level of a good US or Europe race.